Another reminder that VC-funded hosting does not last forever.
Self-host your mission critical dependencies folks!
Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know
561–570 of 764 posts
Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know
#562The truth is Docker ( the company ) could never capitalize the success of their software. They clearly need the money and I have the impression things have not been "great" in the last couple of years. ( regardless of reasons ) The truth is also the fact that most people/organizations never paid a dime for the software or the service, and I'm talking about Billion dollar organizations that paid ridiculous amounts of…
I think it's also a product of the larger economic environment. The old model of grow now and profit later seems to be hitting a wall, leaving companies scrambling to find profit streams in their existing customer base not realizing that doing so will hinder their growth projection leading to more scrambling for profit.
It's a vicious cycle, but when you don't grow in a sustainable way it seems unavoidable.
Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know
#563Docker the tool has been a massive benefit to software development, every now and then I have a moan about the hassle of getting something bootstrapped to run on Docker, but it's still worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. Unfortunately Docker the company appears to be dying, this is the latest in a long line…
To me is the opposite, Docker promotes bad software development practices that in the end will hurt you. In fact most of the time when you hear that you need Docker to run a software is because that software is so badly written that installing it on a system is too much complex.
Another bad use of Docker that I've seen is because people cannot figure out how to write systemd units, that is damn simple (just spend a day to read the documentation and learn the tools that you need). Of course that makes administering the system so much complex because you cannot use the benefits that systemd will give you (thus you start using iperoverengineered tools like kubernetes to just run a webserver and a database...).
I'm maybe oldschool but i use Dockers as a last resort, and prefer to have all the software installed properly on a server, with the use of Ansible as a configuration management tool. To me a system that uses Docker containers is much more difficult to manage in the long run, while a system that doesn't use it is more simple, thus less things that will break, thus if I need to make a fix in 10 years I ssh in the system, edit the program with vim, rebuild and restart the service, no complex deploy pipeline that break, depend on external sources that may be taken down (as is the case) and similar stuff.
Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know
#564Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. I have nothing but mad respect for Daniel Stenberg. 25 years of development of great software, for which he had been threatened[1] and had ridiculous US travel visa obtaining issues[2]. [1] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/02/19/i-will-slaughter-you/ [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26192025 [2] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2020/1…
> [1] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/02/19/i-will-slaughter-you/ Wow that's clearly someone with serious mental issues :( I hope he could find some help for his condition.
https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/08/09/nocais-apology/ allegedly schizophrenia.
Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know
#565[flagged]
Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know
#566Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Come on, 30 days notice is a walk in the park Sure, maybe in a small business or startup, and even then I'd content not quite as easy as all that. When you're dealing with anything larger, say involving multiple teams, organisations, and priorities, 30 days is an insanely short shrift to look at figuring out what your actual route forwards is (and if you're provisioning something new, making sure you're allowed to…
At this size you should have a local registry that acts as a transparent cache. If you don't, then get one right now. What happens if Docker's servers are down for whatever reason? Does your whole process break?
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that it is actually affecting us or even a concern. It isn't. I was just calling out that 30 days isn't just "simple" as the parent poster was asserting.
Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know
#567Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If those images disappear, we lose the ability to release and that's not acceptable. This shines light on why it is so risky (from both availability and security perspectives) to be dependent on any third party for the build pipeline of a product. I have always insisted that all dependencies must be pulled from a local source even if the ultimate origin is upstream. I am continuously surprised how many groups simpl…
We can't go NIH for everything. If we do that we're back to baremetal in our own datacenters and that's expensive and (comparatively) low velocity. We have to pick and choose our dependencies and take the trade off of risk for velocity. This is the tradeoff we made with the move to cloud. We run our workloads on AWS, GCP or Azure, use DataDog or New Relic for monitoring, use Github or GitLab for repos and pipelines,…
It's less NIH and more "cache your dependencies." Details will very greatly depending on what your tech stack looks like, if you're lucky you can just inline a cache. I know Artifactory is a relatively general commercial solution although I can't speak personally about it.
If you can't easily use an existing caching solution, then the only NIH you need to do is copying files that your build system downloads. I know many build systems are "just a bunch of scripts" so those would probably be pretty amenable to this, I don't know if more opaque systems exist that wouldn't give you any access like that. If so, I suppose you could try to just copy the disk the build system writes everything to, but then you're getting into pretty hacky stuff and that's not ideal. Copying the files doesn't give you the nice UX of a cache, but it does mean that in the worst case scenario you at least have the all the dependencies you've used in recent builds, so you'll be able to keep building your things.
Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would not recommend doing it through Docker, though, especially after this change. We use AWS's ECR, and you can set it to do pull-through caching of public images, so images you've already used will stick around even if Docker blows up, and you don't have to pull the images yourself, you just point everything in your environment to ECR and ~~ECR will pull from docker hub~~ (EDIT: it only supports quay.io, not dock…
ECR pull through caching is only possible for other ECR repos or quay.io. you cannot use it for Docker hub.
ah, sorry. We only use it for quay, I didn't realize that was out of necessity rather than targeting.
Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know
#569Docker the tool has been a massive benefit to software development, every now and then I have a moan about the hassle of getting something bootstrapped to run on Docker, but it's still worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. Unfortunately Docker the company appears to be dying, this is the latest in a long line…
To me is the opposite, Docker promotes bad software development practices that in the end will hurt you. In fact most of the time when you hear that you need Docker to run a software is because that software is so badly written that installing it on a system is too much complex. Another bad use of Docker that I've seen is because people cannot figure out how to write systemd units, that is damn simple (just spend a d…
I think you are letting your specific feelings and head-canon about purity be mistaken for solid technical arguments.
If you’re sshing to boxes, editing things by hand and slinging ad-hoc commands around then your frame of reference is so far away from understanding it’s value proposition that it’s probably pointless to discuss it.
Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know
#570Tough. Should have self-hosted rather than get yourself locked in. (Again)
> Start publishing images to GitHub
> GitHub's Container Registry offers free storage for public images. It doesn't require service accounts or long-lived tokens to be stored as secrets in CI, because it can mint a short-lived token to access ghcr.io already.
Even after the montage of outages. Still suggesting to re-centralizing back to GitHub as the solution is really asking for more disappointment. [0]
Once again, we have learned nothing.