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Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

blog.alexellis.io

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Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#221

Post by screamingninja »

user3939382 wrote: post #198
FlyingSnake wrote: post #31

> Start publishing images to GitHub And when GitHub starts similar shenanigans, move out to where? I am old enough to know the we can't trust BigTech and their unpredictable behaviors. Eventually we need to start a Codeberg like alternative using Prototype funds to be self reliant. 1: https://codeberg.org/ 2: https://prototypefund.de/

It should use DHT/BitTorrent. Organizations could share magnet links to the official images. OS projects have been doing it for years with ISOs.

BitTorrent will solve the distribution problem but not magically provide more storage. Someone still has to foot the bill for storing gigabytes (or terabytes) worth of docker images.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#222

Post by voytec »

t344344 wrote: post #207
voytec wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. I have nothing but mad respect for Daniel Stenberg. 25 years of development of great software, for which he had been threatened[1] and had ridiculous US travel visa obtaining issues[2]. [1] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/02/19/i-will-slaughter-you/ [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26192025 [2] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2020/1…

> ridiculous US travel visa obtaining issues Ridiculous? This is pretty common issue for anyone who travels to US. Visa may be denied for whatever reason and tough luck on appeal. I am EU citizen and had similar experience just for visiting Iran on tourist trip. Do not even ask about guys from India, Pakistan or less fortunate countries. And it got even worse with pandemic. US required vaccination for very long time,…

I applied for US travel visa as a citizen of Poland in 2012 and was denied travel due to "wrong type of visa". I was planning to visit my employer and spend 1-2 weeks traveling across the country. Apparently both business and travel visas were inappropriate for these purposes. To add, I was questioned in a US consulate/embassy (can't remember) in Warsaw by a person who repeatedly refused to speak in English, insisted on Polish and I, as a native Polish speaker, had issues understanding them. Poor experience.

This was not a case for Swedish citizens, which is mentioned at the beginning of Daniel's linked post. Sweden is a member of ESTA[1] and Daniel traveled to the US multiple times before being denied travel (with still valid ESTA) and only then applied for a visa.

[1] https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#223

Post by dontlaugh »

ilovecaching wrote: post #77
jacooper wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not as easy nor as simple as docker + docker compose.

It’s literally OCI compatible, integrates with systemd and LSM, and runs rootless by default. Podman is 100000% better designed on the inside with the same interface on the outside.

It’s the lack of fully compatible compose that matters most.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#224

Post by antimba »

windexh8er wrote: post #101
pydry wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they potentially could have made a decent business out of it but they made a lot of bad business decisions. I find myself shaking my head at a lot of their technical decisions too. Podman seems to me to be a case study for how to do this right.

Podman is interesting. I like the architecture problems it solves with respect to Docker but the way they went about it was typical big business Red Hat. Dan Walsh, Podman's BDFL it seems, basically stood in front of RHEL / OpenShift customers for years bashing Docker even when a majority of the things he was claiming were less than half baked. RHEL made sly moves like not supporting the Docker runtime, even at a tim…

Podman winning is good. Red Hat consistently does things right, for example their quay.io is open source, unlike Docker Hub and GitHub Container Registry. The risks of not using rootless containers weren’t blown way out of proportion, because rootless containers really are much more secure. Not requiring a daemon, supporting cgroup v2 early, supporting rootless containers well and having them as the default, these are all good engineering decisions with big benefits for the users. In this and many other things, Red Hat eventually wins because they are more open-source friendly and because they hire better developers who make better engineering decisions.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#226

Post by Groxx »

> Has Docker forgotten Remember leftpad?

Anyone who takes even a brief glance at the absurdly yolo identity, upgrade, and permissions model Docker encourages should be able to answer this with an immediate "obviously they don't care".

The faster this implodes, the faster we get a safer setup where we don't blindly trust everything.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#227

Post by nindalf »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #31

> Start publishing images to GitHub And when GitHub starts similar shenanigans, move out to where? I am old enough to know the we can't trust BigTech and their unpredictable behaviors. Eventually we need to start a Codeberg like alternative using Prototype funds to be self reliant. 1: https://codeberg.org/ 2: https://prototypefund.de/

> And when GitHub starts similar shenanigans

The difference between GitHub and Docker is that GitHub is profitable.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#228

Post by djbusby »

pmarreck wrote: post #60
jon-wood wrote: post #13

Docker the tool has been a massive benefit to software development, every now and then I have a moan about the hassle of getting something bootstrapped to run on Docker, but it's still worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. Unfortunately Docker the company appears to be dying, this is the latest in a long line…

> worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. And Nix is worlds better than even this . Imagine!

How to run Nix on Gentoo and Debian?

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#229

Post by darkwater »

voytec wrote: post #128
londons_explore wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. Instead it has a multi-million dollar company behind it, and VC's who demand profits from a thing that shouldn't have ever had a business plan.

> Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. I have nothing but mad respect for Daniel Stenberg. 25 years of development of great software, for which he had been threatened[1] and had ridiculous US travel visa obtaining issues[2]. [1] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/02/19/i-will-slaughter-you/ [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26192025 [2] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2020/1…

> [1] https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/02/19/i-will-slaughter-you/

Wow that's clearly someone with serious mental issues :( I hope he could find some help for his condition.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#230

Post by dbingham »

As an SRE Manager, this is causing me a hell of a headache this morning.

In 30 days a bunch of images we depend on may just disappear. We mostly depend on images from relatively large organizations (`alpine`, `node`, `golang`, etc), so one would want to believe that we'll be fine - they're all either in the open source program or will pay. But I can't hang my hat on that. If those images disappear, we lose the ability to release and that's not acceptable.

There's no way for us to see which organizations have paid and which haven't. Which are members of the open source program and which aren't. I can't even tell which images are likely at risk.

The best I can come up with, at the moment, is waiting for each organization to make some sort of announcement with one of "We've paid, don't worry", "We're migrating, here's where", or "We've applied to the open source program". And if organizations don't do that... I mean, 30 days isn't enough time to find alternatives and migrate.

So we're just left basically hoping that nothing blows up in 30 days.

And companies that do that to me give me a very strong incentive to never use their products and tools if I can avoid it.

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