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Zed, the new code editor from Atom developers, has entered open beta

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Re: Zed, the new code editor from Atom developers, has entered open beta

#141

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

ibejoeb wrote: post #86
version_five wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in anyway justifying it, but is this for some kind of "social" feature or does it actually relate to code you write? I wonder if this is for some kind of content moderation law compliance? It's a shitty licence but exactly the behavior that's incentivized by governments imposing content moderation rules

Regardless of intent, the way it is written is that the "Service" is what you're agreeing to, and that includes license to run a single instance of the "Application" and the "Tool" on a single device that you own. It's incompatible with pretty much any activity. It also includes great stuff like: > you agree to (a) provide true, accurate, current, and complete information about yourself as prompted by the registratio…

So when I move, I have to update Zed with my new address or what? My license is legally invalid? I'm in breach of terms of service?

Re: Zed, the new code editor from Atom developers, has entered open beta

#142

Post by ibejoeb »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #141
ibejoeb wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of intent, the way it is written is that the "Service" is what you're agreeing to, and that includes license to run a single instance of the "Application" and the "Tool" on a single device that you own. It's incompatible with pretty much any activity. It also includes great stuff like: > you agree to (a) provide true, accurate, current, and complete information about yourself as prompted by the registratio…

So when I move, I have to update Zed with my new address or what? My license is legally invalid? I'm in breach of terms of service?

Yes.

"If you provide any information that is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, or Zed has reasonable grounds to suspect that any information you provide is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, Zed has the right to suspend or terminate your Account and refuse any and all current or future use of the Service"

(Oxford commas, bruh.)

"you acknowledge and agree that you shall have no ownership or other property interest in your Account, and you further acknowledge and agree that all rights in and to your Account are and shall forever be owned by and inure to the benefit of Zed."

Re: Zed, the new code editor from Atom developers, has entered open beta

#143

Post by johnm »

maxbrunsfeld wrote: post #39
ezekg wrote: post #2

This actually looks really, really good. Looks like I need to update macOS from 10.15.5 sometime soon. I use a Hackintosh, so this'll be fun (I've been putting it off because I finally got it to "work" and got scared/wanted to be productive again). Any idea on their plans to monetize? I assume they will eventually charge, since they raised a 10M series A.

Our plan is for the core editor to be free and open-source. We'll charge money for our backend service that powers collaboration in Zed. We have ambitious plans to improve the way that people work together on code. So far, on that front, we've been focused on real-time collaboration, but we have a lot of ideas for how we can improve asynchronous collaboration as well, by having discussions take place directly in the…

A lot of us have been following along with Zed hoping that the clarity and action on the open sourcing front would be done or at least in the process of happening before the public beta but from what was shared in the podcast, it doesn't sound like any progress has been actually made on this front.

Especially, since Zed does have a very clear distinction/dividing line of "completely functional local editor" == permissive open source vs. "all of the real-time & async collaboration features" == proprietary that is easy to explain.

Frankly, I would happily pay for great, fully supported, high-quality real-time collaboration for my teams.

Anyway, as you can see, not having any useful progress on this front instantly shuts down lots of people and there's many of us who won't even consider doing more than checking it out until this is done.

Re: Zed, the new code editor from Atom developers, has entered open beta

#144

Post by johnm »

activitypea wrote: post #64
maxbrunsfeld wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What forms of keyboard navigation are you missing? We try to make sure everything is controllable from the keyboard.

I haven't played enough with it to give good feedback, I've edited my comment to be more fair. * Seems to me that a lot of the keyboard shortcuts are chords or require hitting an arrow key, sometimes even both. Example: VS Code's default mapping for vertical split is cmd+backslash, but Zed requires cmd+k -> arrow key. * The project panel (file tree) doesn't support hjkl for navigation. The website says Vim mode is st…

Yeah, they don't seem to have any serious Emacs person in their team. So, like so many people who try and build editors in the last few decades, they seem to miss some fundamental things (while focusing on other worthy things like the core rope+crdt enabling fast local & collaborative editing).

They talk about things like having a plug-in type system in the future based on e.g. WASM but, as you're pointing out, their fundamental perspective is built around the simplistic notion of a control panel with fixed functionality that's primarily accessed via a bizarre set of keymaps. On this front, might as well stick with JetBrains.

Re: Zed, the new code editor from Atom developers, has entered open beta

#146

Post by johnm »

GuB-42 wrote: post #123

They say performance on par to slightly better than Sublime Text, that's interesting, I like it when developers care about performance. Unfortunately, it is MacOS only, so I couldn't try. Performance turned me off from VSCode and brought me back to Sublime Text. VSCode is not that bad, and I use it occasionally, but the advantages it has over Sublime Text is not worth the performance penalty for me.

IME, Zed's real & perceived performance is way better than Sublime.

Re: Zed, the new code editor from Atom developers, has entered open beta

#147

Post by foxandmouse »

maxbrunsfeld wrote: post #72
ibejoeb wrote: post #45

Hell of a license: ---- INVESTIGATIONS, MONITORING, & NO OBLIGATION TO PRE-SCREEN CONTENT. Zed may, but is not obligated to, investigate, monitor, pre-screen, remove, refuse, or review the Service and/or Content, including Your Content and User Content, at any time. By entering into the Agreement, you hereby provide your irrevocable consent to such monitoring. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of…

Thanks for pointing this out. Our whole terms-of-service is just standard boilerplate provided by our lawyers, but this part doesn't really apply to Zed. Obviously, there's no "content moderation" for project code that you collaborate on with Zed. We'll look into adjusting this to make it clearer that we don't do anything remotely concerning or invasive.

Thanks for the refreshing honesty! The law industry already seems to use (dumb) automation, no wonder they're so afraid of AGI replacing them.

Re: Zed, the new code editor from Atom developers, has entered open beta

#148

Post by foxandmouse »

jgalt212 wrote: post #87
maxbrunsfeld wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for pointing this out. Our whole terms-of-service is just standard boilerplate provided by our lawyers, but this part doesn't really apply to Zed. Obviously, there's no "content moderation" for project code that you collaborate on with Zed. We'll look into adjusting this to make it clearer that we don't do anything remotely concerning or invasive.

Fair enough, but why not push back on the lawyers before pushing the publish button, and spare yourself from a possibly inauspicious start?

When you go to a tailor for a custom suit, do you double-check that he's taken accurate measurements?

Re: Zed, the new code editor from Atom developers, has entered open beta

#150

Post by jgalt212 »

foxandmouse wrote: post #148
jgalt212 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, but why not push back on the lawyers before pushing the publish button, and spare yourself from a possibly inauspicious start?

When you go to a tailor for a custom suit, do you double-check that he's taken accurate measurements?

I do check that it fits and that he's delivering what I've asked him to deliver. And if I don't know what a good custom suit should be, then I should not buy one, or I should seek assistance in its purchase.
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