131–140 of 212 posts
Our government, and large swaths of the media, is owned by banks and corporations. The vestiges of the pre-industrial democracy we had persist as a sham to keep the electorate’s consent for and compliance with this system. Uber and Lyft are not people and shouldn’t have been permitted to spend $1 on this campaign nor towards the campaign of any politician. Unfortunately it won’t be until bread is $30/loaf that the pu…
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In other countries, working at McDonalds you get pension time (better, I'd say, than any 401k match) and more weeks of PTO than most Americans do. These rights were "magically conjured" either by the legislature or labor action.
You can get that at fast food places or corporate coffee chains in the US as well. What you can’t get is PTO for working 10 hours a week whenever you feel like it.
In Europe, you can't drive for Uber or deliver food without a standard work contract which includes: healthcare, pension, payroll and income taxes. Drivers here PAY private companies a weekly amount in order to work for Uber et all (to have that contract). Uber et all work with these companies only, not individuals.
No, that is wrong. At least in Finland, Wolt drivers are independent contractors. Their entire delivery fleet is composed of third world immigrants who are willing to work for peanuts for no benefits. It is exploitative and the current government doesn't want to do anything to change it. Whenever I see a post on HN that says "In Europe, blah blah blah" it is bullshit 80% of the time. Sometimes the poster is extrapola…
It's similar in neighboring Estonia. However the reasons are more than just willingness to work for peanuts. These people are also very willing to break the law.
A lot of the workers are in the country with either tourist or student visas and aren't allowed to work. These delivery companies couldn't even legally hire them. However the way the law works, in the case of contractors, it is the contractor's responsibility to make sure they follow the law. A lot of these people don't even understand that. They just sign up on their phone and get money. What law?
Similar case with taxation. Employers need to pay a lot of taxes per employee. With contractors that requirement is shifted. All the taxes are now the contractor's duty. The delivery contractors, who are not paid a lot in the first place, aren't exactly going out of their way to give away half their earnings. This got to be such a big problem that the government actually had to pass a new law, which came into effect January 2023. At the end of the year, all these delivery companies will need to supply the tax office a full report with how much money they paid each contractor and the contractor's info. Then the tax office can see if the accurate taxes are being paid or not.
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> In whichever way campaigning influenced the outcome, the vote was the vote and the vote followed the laws of California and the United States. While that might be technically true in the absolutist way, bad things are still bad, even if it followed all the technicalities. If we play "the vote was the vote and the vote followed the laws" and it ends up making it mandatory for everyone to cut off their thumbs, do you…
We’re talking about the difference between W2s and 1099s, so I feel pretty good that my vote isn’t up there with literal bodily mutilation so you can put away the straw man; and if I thought AB5’s supporters and the “No” vote had the moral high ground, I wouldn’t have voted the way I did. I would in fact have voted the complete opposite of what I did, so keep that in mind. Do you want to try a different line of argum…
It sounds like you are reasoning that harm is fine when it morally shouldn't be, regardless of the technical (legislative, executive, judicial) track you're on.
I believe that is bad.
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They should have the right to put their proposal to a vote and make their case, and the did, and they won. This was a democratic vote by the citizens of California. And if it were a democratic vote by the Uber drivers, it also would have won.
I think you missed the point. Companies are not citizens therefore, op argued, as non citizens they should not have a voice in election outcomes. It’s a fair point, as a comparison we don’t allow visa holders to vote. I also suspect the citizens were influenced in their opinions by all the money spent to ‘educate’ the electorate. Somehow it feels wrong to allow a corporation to pay to set school curriculums, but when…
Freedom of the press guarantees the right for citizens to be able to publish as they please, and the owners and management of Uber are citizens as much as anyone else.
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The fight over contractor status was versus regular employee status, which would require providing benefits. So, market rejoice, these driver folks are on their own. Editorializing a bit, but CA referendums are so silly. I was asked to vote to resolve an employee/employer dispute in kidney dialysis centers. There's so many of those types of things.
So, crazy enough, I know the head lobbyist for the group that was fighting against that kidney dialysis thing. It's been struck down three times and, according to her heavily biased opinion, would seriously adversely affect access and choice. The company spent something like several hundred million dollars fighting that proposition and two before it. Crazy that one special interest can get some signatures to fight fo…
All because the (licensed) employees wanted safer conditions for their patients?
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It’s possible that Uber and Lyft drivers are simply not dumb enough to believe that the legislature is going to magically conjure a 401k match and PTO for their 10 hour/week driving side gig.
In other countries, working at McDonalds you get pension time (better, I'd say, than any 401k match) and more weeks of PTO than most Americans do. These rights were "magically conjured" either by the legislature or labor action.
With that said, working at McDonalds and paying a pension is completely different than working a gig job, because you are expected to work when scheduled and will be fired if you don't, while an Uber driver works when he sees fit.
In Europe, you can't drive for Uber or deliver food without a standard work contract which includes: healthcare, pension, payroll and income taxes. Drivers here PAY private companies a weekly amount in order to work for Uber et all (to have that contract). Uber et all work with these companies only, not individuals.
Is healthcare in employment contracts actually standard in Europe?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can get that at fast food places or corporate coffee chains in the US as well. What you can’t get is PTO for working 10 hours a week whenever you feel like it.
And no one is saying that. It's "if you work enough hours that you're effectively part or full time then you get benefits" which is how lots of employer arrangements work now. One of my friends is a therapist and their arrangement is have a case-load of more than 30 hours get benefits.