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Analysis of distances between London's bus stops

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Re: Analysis of distances between London's bus stops

#21

Post by realjhol »

eptcyka wrote: post #15
smcl wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble making sense of this. It sounds like you want to say you won't take the bus for a journey under 200 metres - which is fine. But the meaning of your sentence is something like: if you want to travel 2 km and the bus stops every 200 metres means you won't take the bus because it would cost too much? How come? And how did you arrive at that 200 metre threshold? edit: I completely failed to appreciate…

If the bus stops every 200 meters, it has a chance of stopping 10 times, which takes a lot of time. If the weather isn't prohibitively horrible, I have to wait for the bus to arrive and if there's traffic, chances are I'll be able to reach my destination on foot faster than by bus. It's fine by me, but it seems that I'm just not the target audience for busses.

It doesn't usually stop that often because half the time people aren't pushing the button every stop.

In central areas where demand is high, busses usually come every ~5-minutes. Even further out in the suburbs, the wait times are 8-10 minutes.

Bus rides are £1.75. You can take as many busses in a day, and it automatically caps at £5.25. You don't need coins, you pay using contactless credit card, or oyster card prepaid cards.

Unless there is service disruption I find the bus is at least twice as fast as walking, typically a lot faster.

I walk if the distance is less than ~30-minutes, but if I do take the bus I never feel like I've wasted my time or money.

Re: Analysis of distances between London's bus stops

#22

Post by defrost »

smcl wrote: post #20
eptcyka wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the bus stops every 200 meters, it has a chance of stopping 10 times, which takes a lot of time. If the weather isn't prohibitively horrible, I have to wait for the bus to arrive and if there's traffic, chances are I'll be able to reach my destination on foot faster than by bus. It's fine by me, but it seems that I'm just not the target audience for busses.

I guess it would also depend on distance. If it's a 10 minute walk vs waiting up to 5 minutes for the bus then a 5 minute bus ride I get it. Also I just plotted distances between stops on my tram commute (waiting for the CI[0] :D) and 200 metres is much shorter than I realised, so actually I think I am with you. The stop distances for my commute home are: - 100m - 761m - 681m - 371m - 506m - 335m And since it's a tra…

For the context, though, the article states that there is only one route with an average stopping distance of 42 metres and that the the next shortest average distance is twice that (83) and the next again (third shortest) ~4x that (152 m);

and

that these routes are "stop on demand" - not stopping every 40m, just potentially if someone waves from a stop or rings the bell.

Re: Analysis of distances between London's bus stops

#23

Post by smcl »

defrost wrote: post #22
smcl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it would also depend on distance. If it's a 10 minute walk vs waiting up to 5 minutes for the bus then a 5 minute bus ride I get it. Also I just plotted distances between stops on my tram commute (waiting for the CI[0] :D) and 200 metres is much shorter than I realised, so actually I think I am with you. The stop distances for my commute home are: - 100m - 761m - 681m - 371m - 506m - 335m And since it's a tra…

For the context, though, the article states that there is only one route with an average stopping distance of 42 metres and that the the next shortest average distance is twice that (83) and the next again (third shortest) ~4x that (152 m); and that these routes are "stop on demand" - not stopping every 40m, just potentially if someone waves from a stop or rings the bell.

Yeah fair, I didn't think about that as our "request stops" are usually further out of the city centre (where they're actually further apart) and trams, trolleys and buses tend to stop at every stop closer into the city.

Re: Analysis of distances between London's bus stops

#24

Post by sum1ren »

TheHumanist wrote: post #16
sum1ren wrote: post #8

Slightly tangential, but here's a viz of how sprawled out London's bus network is https://youtu.be/xAnCD_Czwxw?t=648 . Quite amazing how well the bus system works.

Even more tangential, but setting up a truly proper bus system in Cities XL is usually the task the runs me into a brick wall and leads me to stepping away from the game for a bit.

Makes me all the more in awe of London's bus network despite the occasional tardiness.

I've not played Cities, but interested to know the usual stumbling blocks to build such a system. Too large a city to cover, and too expensive to cover extensively?

Re: Analysis of distances between London's bus stops

#25

Post by LatteLazy »

GloucesterBoy wrote: post #2

There has recently been a big problem in London for the elderly - many bus stops have been removed and replaced with bicycle lanes, meaning the elderly have to move a considerable distance to their nearest bus stop. There was also an issue that TfL was removing seats from bus stops to stop 'yobbery', but leaving the elderly without a place to sit while waiting: https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/elderly-forced-to-st…

Wait, since when are TFL removing stops for Cycle lanes? Wouldn't they need to re-engineer the whole road as that would mean moving the pavement as well?

Re: Analysis of distances between London's bus stops

#26

Post by easytiger »

GloucesterBoy wrote: post #2

There has recently been a big problem in London for the elderly - many bus stops have been removed and replaced with bicycle lanes, meaning the elderly have to move a considerable distance to their nearest bus stop. There was also an issue that TfL was removing seats from bus stops to stop 'yobbery', but leaving the elderly without a place to sit while waiting: https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/elderly-forced-to-st…

Those island bus stops must count as some of the worst design I've ever seen. Stupid beyond words

Re: Analysis of distances between London's bus stops

#27

Post by cjrp »

realjhol wrote: post #21
eptcyka wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the bus stops every 200 meters, it has a chance of stopping 10 times, which takes a lot of time. If the weather isn't prohibitively horrible, I have to wait for the bus to arrive and if there's traffic, chances are I'll be able to reach my destination on foot faster than by bus. It's fine by me, but it seems that I'm just not the target audience for busses.

It doesn't usually stop that often because half the time people aren't pushing the button every stop. In central areas where demand is high, busses usually come every ~5-minutes. Even further out in the suburbs, the wait times are 8-10 minutes. Bus rides are £1.75. You can take as many busses in a day, and it automatically caps at £5.25. You don't need coins, you pay using contactless credit card, or oyster card prep…

> Unless there is service disruption I find the bus is at least twice as fast as walking, typically a lot faster.

Anecdata, but I can say the opposite is true in central London (London Bridge to Liverpool Street, for example) during rush hour. The bus takes about 20 mins on a good day, and I can walk it in the same time.

Re: Analysis of distances between London's bus stops

#28

Post by evrimoztamur »

"Some buses in London also have "Hail and Ride" zones, where a bus can be stopped with a wave on the hand at any point on the route.—It certainly wouldn't be practical in urban areas where the bus could be stopped every few meters."

Funny the author writes that but these sorts buses do exist in certain cities like İstanbul. A special class of privately operated 'mini-buses' run along a predefined and long route, picking up and dropping passengers at practically any point along the route.

The system works because of the sheer volume of these buses and the simple, straight road. It almost resembles a river and the settlement around it.

Re: Analysis of distances between London's bus stops

#29

Post by cidd »

evrimoztamur wrote: post #28

"Some buses in London also have "Hail and Ride" zones, where a bus can be stopped with a wave on the hand at any point on the route.—It certainly wouldn't be practical in urban areas where the bus could be stopped every few meters." Funny the author writes that but these sorts buses do exist in certain cities like İstanbul. A special class of privately operated 'mini-buses' run along a predefined and long route, pick…

Pretty common in the Philippines too

Re: Analysis of distances between London's bus stops

#30

Post by TheHumanist »

sum1ren wrote: post #24
TheHumanist wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more tangential, but setting up a truly proper bus system in Cities XL is usually the task the runs me into a brick wall and leads me to stepping away from the game for a bit.

Makes me all the more in awe of London's bus network despite the occasional tardiness. I've not played Cities, but interested to know the usual stumbling blocks to build such a system. Too large a city to cover, and too expensive to cover extensively?

It's funny because I believe if a person was to study my gameplay in Cities XL and then also watch me function throughout a day, they would find very clear similarities in my frantic disorganization in general.

I believe, probably, it is mostly a 'me' problem. Maybe not, though. I just find it incredibly overwhelming when you get to the point where your citizens are demanding bus stops everywhere. There is already such a massive, established road network at that point and I have no idea where to begin. The funds are not an issue at that point (usually) because the city is large enough that money is kind of rolling in. It is more just the size of the city. It will need A LOT of bus stops, which makes sense... so I guess it is more just the overwhelming nature of the task.

Would it perhaps make more sense and be much less overwhelming if I were to be placing at least some bus stops as I progress through the earlier half of the game? Of course it would. Now, there are times where it wouldn't be as economically feasible, of course. Money flows much more freely in the later game, I have noticed. But, it would definitely ease the burden later in the game as far as having such a large city to cover. Then there is the question of 'is this bus stop too close/too far from the last one?'

I think it is really just the scale at which I have to place them and lack of preparation on my part (which is my life in general with pretty terrible ADHD).

Highly suggest giving that game a try, though. It's pretty incredible.

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