As a homeowner in the EU just starting an ecological home renovation, the biggest obstacle to heat pump adoption BY FAR is that you have to rip up your floors and install in-floor heating to deal with the lower warm-side operating temperature of heat pumps. At least that's what homeowners are being told here by tradesmen. Your two choices are to stay on natural gas or embark on a renovation that may end up costing as much as your entire house.
Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
711–720 of 809 posts
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#712I love startups, but the value proposition is not here. I just had a heat pump installed and it was a much better price and higher efficiency. What is the benefit of direct to consumers is you are going to charge more? What makes your heat pumps better? Hepa filtering? Smart controls? They all have that. Is the market niche esthetics? They do look nice - maybe this company is trying to be the Apple of heat pumps? Cha…
> What is the benefit of direct to consumers is you are going to charge more? I'm going to guess there's a very specific target market for this, 'lazy' people with a lot of money who don't really do a lot of research before they buy stuff. They are aware of climate change and the need to reduce emissions and have heard of heat pumps as a solution. They've already installed solar panels through a similar service that…
I think that the vast majority of people do not like calling contractors for quotes. You have to spend time on the phone, wait for someone to show up at your house, wait two weeks, call them a bunch of times to ask when they will have time to send a quote, only to find out the cost is about 3 times what you expected, and the quote doesn't include a few things you specifically asked for.
If a company has a website where I can see an estimated price before I call, that's a huge advantage.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#713"While we don't have any physical prototypes at the moment... working on building traction via preorders... start building hardware once fundraising is complete"
Sorry mate, I stopped reading at this point.
It sounds like you might be trying to tackle too much at once. Unless you have very deep pockets (which I'm guessing isn't the case since you haven't secured funding yet) you might be better served finding a route that gets you there via smaller steps with discrete wins along the way. If there are companies out there as you've described who are good at one piece, consider starting with a product that works well with the portion of the puzzle they already solved - perhaps with an eye to eventual acquisition (them of you, or possibly you of them once you've built up a reputation for execution and growth in this space that will attract sufficient capital).
It's along the same lines of reason aircraft companies don't generally build a new engine and airframe at the same time. Even Apple started off with a simple music player before they grew a whole iOS ecosystem.
It sounds like you have a clear vision and your past experience will serve you well. I'd really love to see innovation in this space and wish you luck.
One other gut feeling from reading this that I have to share, which may be painful for you to hear... the timing of your post and its similarities to a Kickstarter come across like this is really more of a pitch to drum up attention and VC funding.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#714I'd love to hear the VC case for this startup. I see a very late entrant, bringing no real product innovation, into a market with big established players. The only thing new I see is going D2C. But many others have commented how going D2C with this product makes no sense.
And if D2C is the play, it would make far more sense to just rebadge an existing high-quality unit and sell that.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#715Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mind sharing some details of your install - equipment model/size, controls, and cost of install?
I'm looking at this 36,000 BTU/h unit for $3,750. Pre-charged line sets make it accessible to homeowners https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FGLMZB8?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=e...
Looking at these US prices with envy. Heat pumps are just becoming a thing in Europe and currently installers are looking to earn a quick buck. I've not seen an install under 20k in the UK lately, bolting on to existing radiators. Also Europe seems to be heavily into air-to-water systems.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#716Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there a straightforward way to estimate whether a small (24 kbtu), medium (36 kbtu), or large (48 kbtu) unit would be most appropriate for a given home?
For reference for international users, 24 kbtu is 7kW, 36 is 10kW and 48 is 14kW I'm not a heatpump export, but if that's continuous output, with an SCOP of say 3.8 (what I had quoted in the UK for an airsource -> water -- UK heating is typically hot water run from a boiler through radiators in each room rather than pumping hot (or cool) air direct to the romm via ducted which seems common in the US, perhaps because…
I hear a lot of horror stories from the UK about this, that people pay upwards of £500 and still cold in their homes. There are a lot of cowboy installers going around but even those who are qualified can't be reached for aftercare/handoff etc. Fiddling with settings at 50p/kWh is not a great experience.
On that note I think biopropane will be the solution for Europe.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#717this has been at the top of hn all day :(
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#718Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mind sharing some details of your install - equipment model/size, controls, and cost of install?
Is there a straightforward way to estimate whether a small (24 kbtu), medium (36 kbtu), or large (48 kbtu) unit would be most appropriate for a given home?
10-20 W/m2 is modern warm house, 30-40 - modernish house or well insulated old house, 60 - barely insulated, 100 - no insulation. Roughly.
Assuming they mean kbtu/h continuous and not kbtu, 12kbtu/h is ~3.5kW. So, 7, 10, 14 KW units.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#719I've seen other construction related businesses try to go direct and it is extremely difficult. By going direct to the homeowner you are targeting the venn diagram union of "people who are willing & able to do the work themselves" and "people who will pay more" How are you going to build your service network? You say you will "connect them with a contractor to do the actual install." But contractors make their money…
> But contractors make their money on equipment sales, not on labor.
This. No competent contractor will install a unit you bought off some website.
That will lead to two possibilities: 1) Homeowners try to install it themselves and screw it up 2) Incompetent contractors install it and screw it up
The result of both is bad word of mouth/press and reputational damage to the brand.
Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners
#720Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm looking at this 36,000 BTU/h unit for $3,750. Pre-charged line sets make it accessible to homeowners https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FGLMZB8?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=e...
Looking at these US prices with envy. Heat pumps are just becoming a thing in Europe and currently installers are looking to earn a quick buck. I've not seen an install under 20k in the UK lately, bolting on to existing radiators. Also Europe seems to be heavily into air-to-water systems.
US (attempted) buyers of air-to-water look with envy to the Nordics, Northern EU, and the UK. My quote in the US was almost double that figure (for an installed system). The parts prices you’re looking at are indeed cheap. The labor is moderate. The profit margins are high.