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Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

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Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#691

Post by shjake »

snark42 wrote: post #521
hcrisp wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, in fact a couple things in the pitch don't add up. > ... where the 80M single family homes in the US replace their furnaces with heat pumps. Where did they get this statistic? I already have a heat pump and know many that do too. Are we included in this 80M estimate? What about those in the northern half of the US that also need back-up heat for when it is very cold? They aren't going to replace their furnac…

> What about those in the northern half of the US that also need back-up heat for when it is very cold? This heat pump is supposed to work to -15F and includes back-up resistive heat. Theoretically it can replace a heater and air conditioner anywhere. I know people north of Chicago that use a similar heat pump and resistive backup system and it's been fine to -30F keeping the house at 69F. > I don't know the contract…

Resistive heating is very extremely inefficient compared to gas though

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#692

Post by john_cheapsms »

1. App needs to be very responsive, probably should have some port exposed to communicate with it directly without cloud if needed. Using Samsung Air - Air solution, the app is just annoyingly slow. 2. Provide some basic API to start, stop the device, set the desired temperature. 3. Add some integration with weather forecast for the area - I would prefer to wait for couple hours for better efficiency. 4. You should not feel moving air. 5. By current solutions humidity is removed from air - try to address that.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#693

Post by cmui »

borski wrote: post #675

Here’s my big question: physical size of the pump. I have limited space for condensers outside due to the layout of the home, and the reason I haven’t put in a heat pump is due to none being physically sized small enough to replace our ACs (48k btu and 24k btu). Any word on dimensions?

My main worry for you would be clearance in front of the condenser. These are side discharging units and require 4ft clearance in front for the air exhaust stream. Rough foot print of the condenser - 36" x 15".

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#694

Post by KennyBlanken »

cmui wrote: post #639
quirkot wrote: post #633

I've seen other construction related businesses try to go direct and it is extremely difficult. By going direct to the homeowner you are targeting the venn diagram union of "people who are willing & able to do the work themselves" and "people who will pay more" How are you going to build your service network? You say you will "connect them with a contractor to do the actual install." But contractors make their money…

> By going direct to the homeowner you are targeting the venn diagram union of "people who are willing & able to do the work themselves" This is meant to be installed by a professional contractor, not the homeowner. > How are you going to build your service network? Compensate the contractors fairly and act as lead gen. > Who are the decision makers in your target market exactly? Homeowners. Not targeting multiunit r…

> This is meant to be installed by a professional contractor, not the homeowner.

And where are you going to get the contractors? Nobody is going to want to contract with you. HVAC companies go with 1, maybe 2 companies. How are you going to pull them away from Carrier, Lenox, etc who can offer volume discounts or just dump their products into the market and bleed you dry without even noticing the effect on their balance sheet?

How are you going to get the plumbing/heating distributors to supply companies to stock your units and parts? You're going to distribute them yourselves? That's going to be very expensive, slow, and unreliable.

How are you going to guarantee you'll still be around for the lifespan of the unit, to provide parts and technicians who know how to service the units?

Puts envelope with your business plan to forehead

You're going to:

-lock down the protocol between the components so nobody can use standard thermostats

-lock down access to the controller for diagnostics, forcing people to go with you for service

-charge a fee for remote "smart" thermostat features

-justify all this with some hand-wavy nonsense about using ML/AI to maximize energy efficiency or predict when the unit needs service

How close am I?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#695

Post by faromanc »

Awesome! How would this work for homes that require intense dehumidification? Where we live it reaches 99% relative humidity every day of the year and you need multiple dehumidifiers around the house or a central dehumidifier connected to the furnace. Would a separate dehumidifier be able to connect to this system? Or would it be able to handle the dehumidification on its own?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#696

Post by borski »

cmui wrote: post #693
borski wrote: post #675

Here’s my big question: physical size of the pump. I have limited space for condensers outside due to the layout of the home, and the reason I haven’t put in a heat pump is due to none being physically sized small enough to replace our ACs (48k btu and 24k btu). Any word on dimensions?

My main worry for you would be clearance in front of the condenser. These are side discharging units and require 4ft clearance in front for the air exhaust stream. Rough foot print of the condenser - 36" x 15".

That clearance may actually work, at least for one of them. The other one I could make work easily too. I’ll check the footprint.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#697

Post by KennyBlanken »

oceanplexian wrote: post #228
Mvandenbergh wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody will build a heat-pump system with an on/off control system like that because the performance will be awful. Certainly not an air-to-water system.

It already exists. Check out Mr. Cool Universal and Gree Flexx. Heat pumps that work with a normal thermostat exist. Most of the info about this stuff online is trash because HVAC is the most toxic online community compared to any other contracting profession. One of the reasons highly efficient mini splits haven’t took off in the USA- the self proclaimed experts want to charge $2000 to drill a hole and charge a line…

$50 says their units are the same units that the Mr. Cool and Gree Flexx units come out of, just with a fancy panel.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#698

Post by cmui »

faromanc wrote: post #695

Awesome! How would this work for homes that require intense dehumidification? Where we live it reaches 99% relative humidity every day of the year and you need multiple dehumidifiers around the house or a central dehumidifier connected to the furnace. Would a separate dehumidifier be able to connect to this system? Or would it be able to handle the dehumidification on its own?

The Electric Air system can provide a lot of dehumidification. For your specific situation dedicated dehumidifiers are probably the right solution, unless you need a fair amount of cooling in addition to the dehumidification. This is because for purely dehumidification you need some reheat after chilling the air to condenser water out. With a dedicated dehumidifier you get this for free from the condenser on the other side of your refrigeration cycle. In the Electric Air system the backup strip heaters provide the reheat in the air handler, but using them a lot is expensive.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#699

Post by elevenoh »

agmetcalf wrote: post #679

I think well-controlled fresh air intake is the most uniquely appealing part of this offering. I built a few prototypes to provide CO2 based fresh air intake in our house and it has made our bedrooms much more comfortable ( https://www.instagram.com/p/CUYBYm_v0IV/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= ). I think it’s hard to appreciate until you sleep with it for a week! I’m currently working on specifying the HVAC for our next house.…

[dead]

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#700

Post by avip »

quirkot wrote: post #633

I've seen other construction related businesses try to go direct and it is extremely difficult. By going direct to the homeowner you are targeting the venn diagram union of "people who are willing & able to do the work themselves" and "people who will pay more" How are you going to build your service network? You say you will "connect them with a contractor to do the actual install." But contractors make their money…

(intersection)
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