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Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

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Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#141

Post by 0xffff2 »

mdasen wrote: post #111

I guess I'm wondering what this offers over calling an HVAC company and having them install a heat pump system. The system seems expensive at $14,000 for a 48k BTU 18 SEER system. It looks like I can get that for $4,000. Is the sleek software and design of your units worth the extra $10,000, especially when I'm not really going to see my air handler frequently? I do like that it monitors CO2 and offers humidification…

I mean, they estimate $10k for installation, so you are calling an HVAC company and having them install a heat pump system. It's not clear to me from the website if the idea is that they are actually integrating installation in-house or if they will contract out the work, in which case it's likely the exact same installers as if you ordered a system from somewhere like Home Depot.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#142

Post by ultrarunner »

cmui wrote: post #88
daredoes wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would your company be willing to provide an open-source local-first websocket-based integration with https://www.home-assistant.io/ or use the new Matter + Thread standard to provide it for everyone? If that's available, this would be my top choice as I'm actively shopping for all-electric heat pumps

It's something we'd definitely consider. Is the desire to have thermostat control via any third party? edit - The current plan has been Matter/thread Homekit + Google Home integration. We can expose at least temperature control via this to everyone.

My desire would be to have the possibility of thermostat control (entirely) via first party, me. Odds are I would never even touch it, but the fact that I couldn't would be a dealbreaker for something like this.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#143

Post by thehappypm »

dawnerd wrote: post #22
z3ugma wrote: post #12

Chris, one of my biggest worries is that your startup will get acquired or go out of business and then the firmware will leave me with a $14,000 brick. What if I want to keep using the cloud-based thermostat when your servers get shut off or moved to another system, or if something like Google Nest closing down their API happens after you've exited? This is an expensive system with an expected long life, and I'd want…

My thoughts too. Local heating/cooling should not be tied to the cloud period. If it doesn't use the normal wiring people already have it's a hard pass from me.

Counterpoint — I have an app for my Mitsubishi heat pump and use it all the time. It’s way more convenient and lets me hyper optimize my house. I actually don’t even use the physical ones at all anymore

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#144

Post by ezrast »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #63

I keep reading lots of horror stories about heat pumps. People are complaining about all of the following: - Enormous energy bills because under some conditions (cold weather?) heat pumps use a lot more energy than expected. - Heat pump equipment and radiators taking too much space in small homes. - Cold homes and/or a requirement to keep windows shut because heat pumps just don't generate enough heat. - Only suitabl…

I've no horse in this race (not a homeowner), but Technology Connections has made a series of videos advocating heat pumps, most recently this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVLLNjSLJTQ

The gist is that heat pump technology is continuously getting better at working in cold conditions, so if the horror stories are more than 5-10 years old they may not reflect the current state of things, and in extreme situations resistive heating can always be used as a backup.

Heat pumps are "just" air conditioners that point the other way, and AC is extremely common in the USA, so I'd doubt that the competency required is exceptional.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#145

Post by epanchin »

thehappypm wrote: post #143
dawnerd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts too. Local heating/cooling should not be tied to the cloud period. If it doesn't use the normal wiring people already have it's a hard pass from me.

Counterpoint — I have an app for my Mitsubishi heat pump and use it all the time. It’s way more convenient and lets me hyper optimize my house. I actually don’t even use the physical ones at all anymore

Are you tied to the app?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#146

Post by criddell »

My HVAC is 14 years old so we’re actually planning on replacing it sometime in the next 24 months.

I’ve talked to a couple of HVAC companies already because I want more cooling power. When it’s above 100F (which it is for 3+ months of the year) my current system struggles to hold 80F. If we use the oven on a hot day, we may not get the temperature back down for days. Our winters are relatively mild (we don’t get much below 25F). We’re in central Texas.

The HVAC companies I’ve spoken to won’t sell me an oversized system. They’ve never really said why, but from my research I think it has to do with mold problems resulting from cooling air with too much moisture in it. It doesn’t seem like a big ask for the thermostat to include humidity in its decision on how hard to run the AC, but apparently that doesn’t exist.

Would one of your systems solve any of these problems? I’m not a DIY person, so I don’t really want to buy direct. Do you have installation partners in the Austin, TX area?

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#147

Post by eldaisfish »

londons_explore wrote: post #122
potatolicious wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "and pay for and install maintain and upgrade the hardware" The problem is that the cost of running the kit has much less to do with the actual HVAC equipment itself and has to do with your house - which no sane HVAC company wants to make guarantees on. - What kind of insulation is in the walls? What's the R-value? The vast majority of home owners do not know this, and many homes have old and deeply substandard ins…

They could make an estimate based on the age and size of the house. Build in a profit margin.

This is wishful thinking. the ability of a structure to retain heat depends on SO MANY factors that guaranteeing a temperature is a fool’s errand.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#148

Post by heatpumpfan »

cmui wrote: post #123
heatpumpfan wrote: post #30

I recently purchased and installed a 3 ton MrCool Universal (Gree Flexx, I believe) with lineset for ~$4K shipped: https://hvacdirect.com/mrcool-universal-36-000-btu-heat-pump... Worked just fine during the Christmas arctic blast. We will see about longevity but at 1/3 of the price of your proposed units, I'm not worried about slapping a new one at any time. I am essentially on my own for service as no contractors wi…

My hats off to you for doing a DIY install. This is not a bad route to go if you enjoy/feel comfortable doing the work and don't care about air quality, smart thermostat integration, etc. Re contractors, we will have local contractor partners do the install and handle servicing, so you won't be left with an unserviceable system.

Are you able to say more about that? "We will have local contractors" sounds great but in my area I don't think you will be able to find anyone to work with you. The local contractors and supply houses have closed ranks to fend off internet sales. I can't even buy sheet metal from the local supply houses without presenting an HVAC license. These folks are seeing their livelihoods threatened by a looming shift toward the "appliance" model (which I for one surely welcome) so they would see partnering to service a model like this as slitting their own throats.
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