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Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

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131–140 of 809 posts

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#131
All I'm looking for is a heat pump that can maintain a COP of 3.0 or higher down to -20f, can be easily controlled via MQTT on my home network OR via standard 3 wire thermostat, does not use the cloud for any of it's core functionality, and does not require an HVAC license to buy parts and see technical manuals.

If you've nailed that down, awesome!

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#132

Is this designed for new home builds or remodel/retrofits? There would be a major cost difference between demo/prepping a retrofit over a new build.

We're primarily targeting remodel/retrofits as a market, but you could certainly use this in a new build.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#133
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of heat pumps, a "backup heating strip" is a resistive heating element - electricity goes in, heat comes out just like an old electric heater. They're generally used during defrost cycles for the external air handler in cold weather, or to provide a temporary thermal boost when the heat pump is having performance trouble e.g. when the exterior temperature is near the bottom of the heat pump's operating…

Whole-house heating with resistive electric heating is going to get expensive, quickly. If they're serious about installing these in cold weather climates, they should have more information about the cut over temperature and the efficiency of the heat pumps at those temperatures. Just for context, my heat pumps cut over around 40-45 degrees to gas-based heat.

You have an older system. New systems can provide 100% rated capacity well below freezing. Mine is -5F and not specifically a "cold climate" unit. The unit in OP seems to offer 100% nameplate capacity at 5F.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#134
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would your company be willing to provide an open-source local-first websocket-based integration with https://www.home-assistant.io/ or use the new Matter + Thread standard to provide it for everyone? If that's available, this would be my top choice as I'm actively shopping for all-electric heat pumps

It's something we'd definitely consider. Is the desire to have thermostat control via any third party? edit - The current plan has been Matter/thread Homekit + Google Home integration. We can expose at least temperature control via this to everyone.

Yes, and particularly in a local/LAN/no internet manner. Local push or local pull.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#135
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point, I should do a better job of communicating the unit sizes. Heat pump capacity varies as a function of outdoor temps. A standard unit is rated at 47F but the sizes I'm showing are at 5F (cold climate conditions). Also for this price you get the air quality module which does HEPA, fresh air intake and humidification and a smart thermostat that's designed to fully optimize this heat pump system.

so what about places like Duluth, MN where it can be -20F ambient, then -40F to -50F with a windchill for several weeks of the year?

I would be very interested in stats on the gradient of home energy use by average outdoor temperature. I imagine that "Places where it gets too cold for heat pumps" represent a large percentage of heat usage; That is, there's (made up numbers) 10% of the population living in those areas, but they represent 90% of heating energy use.

If every home that could use your heat pumps year-round installed one and used it exclusively, what's the upper bound on energy saved? If every home across the country installed one and used it primarily (whenever it was warm enough outside), what would be the energy savings? Not to disparage, I'm certain it's still significant, but I'm curious to quantify it.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#136
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts too. Local heating/cooling should not be tied to the cloud period. If it doesn't use the normal wiring people already have it's a hard pass from me.

Maybe Europe market is ready for this. Considering how unstable the residential electrical and internet grid is in the US (instead of being dug in, into the ground all the cables are hanging between the trees and there are constant failures), relying on that AND on the cloud for an essential service is a no-go.

the US power grid is not in any way unreliable. US residents enjoy some of the highest grid availability figures for anywhere in the world. Sure, sometimes things go horribly wrong but their system is not unreliable by design as this comment insinuates.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#137
post #62

Typical medium unit at market place is only around 3K compared to your offering at 12k. Why is it so expensive https://www.homedepot.com/p/Pioneer-36-000-BTU-3-Ton-18-SEER...

Fair point, I should do a better job of communicating the unit sizes. Heat pump capacity varies as a function of outdoor temps. A standard unit is rated at 47F but the sizes I'm showing are at 5F (cold climate conditions). Also for this price you get the air quality module which does HEPA, fresh air intake and humidification and a smart thermostat that's designed to fully optimize this heat pump system.

Do you have product specification sheet like this https://images.thdstatic.com/catalog/pdfImages/96/96c34548-a...

You say 5f but I dont see any reference to that on your site.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#138
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would your company be willing to provide an open-source local-first websocket-based integration with https://www.home-assistant.io/ or use the new Matter + Thread standard to provide it for everyone? If that's available, this would be my top choice as I'm actively shopping for all-electric heat pumps

It's something we'd definitely consider. Is the desire to have thermostat control via any third party? edit - The current plan has been Matter/thread Homekit + Google Home integration. We can expose at least temperature control via this to everyone.

(not OP, but I also use HA)

The important bit is to have an open API that can be connected to from the local network (or via Matter + Thread, etc), and via a cloud. Then anyone can develop a client. This also has benefits in UX: the latency to update is much lower than cloud based polling, since that's almost always rate limited.

The closer anything is to the bottom of the chart here, the better. When buying something as expensive as a heat pump, I wouldn't even consider something that isn't at least local polling:

https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-th...

That being said, I'm not opposed to value add things via cloud services. Want to get the weather via a cloud service, even if that changes the schedule? Totally fine! But ultimate control must be local.

Re: Launch HN: Electric Air (YC W23) – Heat pump sold directly to homeowners

#139
post #79

"Preorder". "Shipping Winter 2024". "While we don't have any physical prototypes at the moment, we have the industrial design and also largely understand how this will be built." No. You have to build it before you can sell it.

I get where you're coming from. There's a lot of scope to this though, and not a lot of technical risk. I think in this case it makes sense to sell units, and also generate feedback about the product as early as possible. We're not selling fusion or self driving cars.
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