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ACTA is being signed right now in the EU

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Re: ACTA is being signed right now in the EU

#21

Post by hastur »

rickmb wrote: post #14
hastur wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title is not exactly misleading. ACTA is first signed by the executive branches (foreign ministers or ambassadors), and this is what happened today in Tokyo for most EU nations. Then ACTA will be ratified by the EU Parliament (i.e. the legislative branch). Then ACTA will be ratified by national Parliaments. (Where necessary - most likely in all EU countries. A little different story in U.S., where Obama can just…

National parliament ratification is also not a mere formality. The EU cannot afford to be divided at this moment, or have the mood in member states turned against it even more. Ironically, rejection by the EU parliament would save the EU a lot of internal headaches. Which is why you could very well see members of parties that support ACTA on the national level reject it in the EU parliament. Political games: they can…

I never said national ratification is a mere formality. In fact, you can count on a huge debate in Poland (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200).

I was just saying - even if a national parliament rejects ACTA, 90% of ACTA will still affect that country as a EU member.

And yeah, I'm very hopeful too about the EU Parliament.

Re: ACTA is being signed right now in the EU

#22

Post by Historiopode »

skrebbel wrote: post #20
rickmb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National parliament ratification is also not a mere formality. The EU cannot afford to be divided at this moment, or have the mood in member states turned against it even more. Ironically, rejection by the EU parliament would save the EU a lot of internal headaches. Which is why you could very well see members of parties that support ACTA on the national level reject it in the EU parliament. Political games: they can…

I really hope you're right about all this. Still wondering why there's no SOPA-style outbreak in any EU country but Poland. Maybe because we all, like me, just sit and wonder?

This is not surprising, since ACTA is still months away from being effective and news concerning its dangers and shortcomings are only now starting to be visible.

However, there is also another, perhaps major, issue: the tech sector is just not as large or impactful as in the US (or, at least, this is the public perception): no community hub such as Silicon Valley, very few dominant businesses, very few startups and VCs capable of flexing their muscles.

I fear that if we are unable to get major US companies to protest ACTA, such legislation might simply slide past unseen by most.

Re: ACTA is being signed right now in the EU

#23

Post by hastur »

skrebbel wrote: post #20
rickmb wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National parliament ratification is also not a mere formality. The EU cannot afford to be divided at this moment, or have the mood in member states turned against it even more. Ironically, rejection by the EU parliament would save the EU a lot of internal headaches. Which is why you could very well see members of parties that support ACTA on the national level reject it in the EU parliament. Political games: they can…

I really hope you're right about all this. Still wondering why there's no SOPA-style outbreak in any EU country but Poland. Maybe because we all, like me, just sit and wonder?

There are no outbreaks in other EU countries, because the media don't write/talk about ACTA. So the societies are completely ignorant about ACTA's existence.

In Poland, some mainstream media had the balls to talk about ACTA, which coincided with high-profile "hacking" attacks on govt websites. This lead to a sudden spread of public awareness. And when the kids heard that free downloading of mp3s, movies and porn is threatened, they took to the streets. (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3502200)

And how did the media learn about ACTA in the first place? That's still a bit of a riddle to me. Certainly some active NGOs, like the Panoptykon Foundation, and enlightened individuals, like Piotr Waglowski (a lawyer of some fame in the digital community) have contributed by constantly pesking the govt about ACTA.

Re: ACTA is being signed right now in the EU

#24

Post by skrebbel »

hastur wrote: post #23
skrebbel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope you're right about all this. Still wondering why there's no SOPA-style outbreak in any EU country but Poland. Maybe because we all, like me, just sit and wonder?

There are no outbreaks in other EU countries, because the media don't write/talk about ACTA. So the societies are completely ignorant about ACTA's existence. In Poland, some mainstream media had the balls to talk about ACTA, which coincided with high-profile "hacking" attacks on govt websites. This lead to a sudden spread of public awareness. And when the kids heard that free downloading of mp3s, movies and porn is t…

Well, for instance in the Netherlands, we have a lobby organisation called Bits of Freedom, who are basically an EFF but less Linuxy.

They are usually rather capable of causing a somewhat decent ruckus when nasty stuff happens, and they usually quickly get the support of at least the liberals and the far-right-conservatives (who are pretty consistently in favour of free and open internet though nobody understands why).

Still, nothing about ACTA. Thanks for laying out the Polish case for me though.

Re: ACTA is being signed right now in the EU

#25

Post by skrebbel »

Historiopode wrote: post #22
skrebbel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope you're right about all this. Still wondering why there's no SOPA-style outbreak in any EU country but Poland. Maybe because we all, like me, just sit and wonder?

This is not surprising, since ACTA is still months away from being effective and news concerning its dangers and shortcomings are only now starting to be visible. However, there is also another, perhaps major, issue: the tech sector is just not as large or impactful as in the US (or, at least, this is the public perception): no community hub such as Silicon Valley, very few dominant businesses, very few startups and…

Most EU countries have a multiparty system with somewhat less buyable politicians than the US has in exchange, though. This might help. After all, why else did it take so long for ACTA-ish laws to show up at all?

Or maybe I'm just naive (I like to believe that most of our politicians are selfish and stupid, but not corrupt) and missing something.

Re: ACTA is being signed right now in the EU

#26

Post by toyg »

hastur wrote: post #23
skrebbel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope you're right about all this. Still wondering why there's no SOPA-style outbreak in any EU country but Poland. Maybe because we all, like me, just sit and wonder?

There are no outbreaks in other EU countries, because the media don't write/talk about ACTA. So the societies are completely ignorant about ACTA's existence. In Poland, some mainstream media had the balls to talk about ACTA, which coincided with high-profile "hacking" attacks on govt websites. This lead to a sudden spread of public awareness. And when the kids heard that free downloading of mp3s, movies and porn is t…

The start of the negotiation process was formally acknowledged in various diplomatic venues, as it usually is for these treaties: for such large negotiations the bureaucracy is huge (the days of Molotov-Ribbentropp are long gone), so people knew something was going to happen.

Then negotiators tried hard to keep any interested NGO and independent parties from getting access; inevitably, their interest was piqued even more, and leaks started to appear, as they always do when Evil Stuff is in the works.

I'm pretty sure people like Cory Doctorow were banging the drums about ACTA years ago.

Re: ACTA is being signed right now in the EU

#27

Post by hastur »

skrebbel wrote: post #24
hastur wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no outbreaks in other EU countries, because the media don't write/talk about ACTA. So the societies are completely ignorant about ACTA's existence. In Poland, some mainstream media had the balls to talk about ACTA, which coincided with high-profile "hacking" attacks on govt websites. This lead to a sudden spread of public awareness. And when the kids heard that free downloading of mp3s, movies and porn is t…

Well, for instance in the Netherlands, we have a lobby organisation called Bits of Freedom, who are basically an EFF but less Linuxy. They are usually rather capable of causing a somewhat decent ruckus when nasty stuff happens, and they usually quickly get the support of at least the liberals and the far-right-conservatives (who are pretty consistently in favour of free and open internet though nobody understands why…

Obviously, Bits Of Freedom didn't bother to do much about ACTA.

Re: ACTA is being signed right now in the EU

#28

Post by zalew »

Create wrote: post #3

BBC News - Thousands march in Poland over Acta internet treaty http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16735219

The reality is nobody here except geeks was aware of ACTA at all. The explosion of media attention started about a week ago, and even polititians were totally unprepared to handle any reposnse and it looked like they were surprised that finally somebody noticed it. Even the most pro-govt media didn't leave it alone, but it's sad that the case was raised so late. Too bad we don't have any real rock-stars on the tech scene to speak up, such as sopa had google, reddit, etc. Most media coverage include interviews with old tards in suits and some rotting entertainment celebs skewing up the view on this issue talking about their precious mp3s nobody listens to anyway, and on the other side they show protesting people way too young to speak about it in a reasonable manner. I'm all happy about the protests emerging, but it's too bad we lack influencial people in the tech sector to handle this issue on a substantive level.

Re: ACTA is being signed right now in the EU

#29

Post by zalew »

ajuc wrote: post #4
Create wrote: post #3

BBC News - Thousands march in Poland over Acta internet treaty http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16735219

There were protest yesterday in many Polish cities - biggest in Kraków (15000 according to police), smaller 500-5000 in other cities. People summed it up to about 60 000 people in the whole country. Today there will be protest in Lublin, Poznan, and other cities. I'm going to the one in Lublin. Probably nothing's gonna change, but lies of the governament are too much. They say in TV and radio that ACTA won't change a…

> Today there will be protest in Lublin, Poznan, and other cities. I'm going to the one in Lublin.

In Warsaw protests are moved to tomorrow because of legal issues (you have to notify 3 days before)

http://www.tvnwarszawa.pl/informacje,news,protest-przeciw-ac...

Other cities today, as you say http://www.tvnwarszawa.pl/informacje,news,acta-podpisana,393...

Re: ACTA is being signed right now in the EU

#30

Post by nickik »

skrebbel wrote: post #19
nickik wrote: post #15

They way ACTA was planned shuld not be possible for any democratic nation. This clearly shows that we have to evlolve you democratic systems.

Nice related trivia: If the EU would apply to become an EU member state, it would be rejected because it's not democratic enough. Yes, that's a problem and yes, it'll take decades to fix.

Haha I knew the fact but heavn't quite heard it put like this :)

I don't really like the EU I would rather have a free market zone and travel zone without all the other stuff, Europe should not become an Empire.

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