Why did 250k Britons die sooner than expected? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why did 250k Britons die sooner than expected?

#161

Post by profunctor » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 11:33 AM UTC

lstamour wrote: post #94

anonporridge wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding after reading this article is that the problem has nothing to do with ambulances or medics. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/20/world/europe/uk-ambulance... First order problem, the hospitals have no beds. This means that ambulances end up waiting for hours and medics twiddling their thumbs at the ER until the staff can finally take the patient. Medics can't just abandon the patient because there lega…

> when Britain's own young people were never going to do that work for the wages offered Too true. I’m from Canada where we worry nurses will go south of the border, but was recently in London at an NHS hospital and was talking about this with a nurse. Pay for nurses in Canada is on par with a Jr Developer here. (Still low for the hours and effort required!) By comparison, nurses in the UK make about as much as an in…

They also do not keep the wages at a level that keeps staffing near adequate.

Re: Why did 250k Britons die sooner than expected?

#162

Post by Retric » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 11:54 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #112

Retric wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere has problems, it’s less about perfection than simply being a better option. I’ve generally considered Canada the best option for a while. English speaking, low crime, same time zone with family, etc. New Zealand, or one of the Nordic countries aren’t that far behind. Australia, England, and Western Europe etc are much lower, but still have plenty going for them. The biggest thing America has going for it i…

I'm not talking about what's perfect or not perfect. I'm talking about why OP thinks "the wealthy and powerful" are the reason for whatever shortcomings they perceive about the U.S. Canada, for example, has basically the same corporate tax rates as the U.S. Canada's capital gains tax rate is effectively about the same as the U.S. for high income earners, because of only half of it is included in income. The social se…

US nominal tax rates are meaningless. Canada's companies pay twice the share of taxes as US companies.

Re: Why did 250k Britons die sooner than expected?

#163

Post by ElfinTrousers » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:02 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #35

In my district in the UK, there were occasions when average wait times for an ambulance for a Category 1 incident (eg. person not breathing) reached 48 hours last month. The target is 90% of patients reached in 15 minutes. Yet the reality is the average wait was 48 hours. I can't see any way that kind of thing isn't contributing to a shorter life expectancy.

Then why bother having an ambulance service? Which I guess is the question the Tories are hoping people will ask.

Re: Why did 250k Britons die sooner than expected?

#164

Post by Nextgrid » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:06 PM UTC

tailspin2019 wrote: post #21

krysp wrote: post #9

As a Brit I can't help but notice that on every axis, our country appears to be in decline at the moment. Even before Brexit, things hadn't been going well, as this article shows. It's making me seriously consider moving away. I want to have hope that as a country we can turn around this societal regression, but I fear it's a deeper problem than just the current government. The class system and an unhealthy nostalgia…

As another Brit I totally agree. I don’t quite understand the sequence of events that brought us here, but I am convinced that we need to kick the Conservatives out at the next election at the very least.

I don't think the conservatives are the problem per-se, rather it's a flawed political system that rewards the biggest bullshitter, imposes no penalties for lies, misconduct and conflicts of interest, and a term limit that's way too long so the feedback loop is extremely long.

I hate the Conversatives as well and would like to see them booted out of principle but I'm not under the illusion that the other option is going to do any better long-term beyond some minor post-election platitudes.

Re: Why did 250k Britons die sooner than expected?

#165

Post by HWR_14 » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:07 PM UTC

MrJohz wrote: post #130

balaji1 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the caller know an ambulance is coming? How do we know the call didn't end up in a black hole? We see where the driver is on Doordash. Similarly there should be a text message confirmation with a tracking link to the ambulance on the way and the destination hospital.

This is a fine technical solution to a different problem. The issue is not that people don't trust the ambulances, or want to keep track of them to feel more in control. The issue is that there aren't enough ambulances in the first place, not enough beds to put people in when they arrive at hospitals, nor enough people to treat them when they've got a bed. I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea in general, but add…

As I understand it, there are enough ambulances if they are just transporting people to a hospital. There are not enough ambulances if they are being used as overflow beds for the hospital because the patients cannot be admitted because of lack of space.

Re: Why did 250k Britons die sooner than expected?

#166

Post by Retric » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:10 PM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #97

nradov wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime rates are a city by city and neighborhood by neighborhood issue. Most of the USA is very safe; my city has zero murders most years. The statistics are thrown off by a few neighborhoods in a few cities like Chicago that have degenerated into third-world war zones. While that's a terrible situation and we need to fix it, most HN users can easily avoid those places.

Chicago's homicide rate isn't that high once you use per-capita numbers.

Chicago and Toronto are roughly the same size, but per-capta Chicago has ~10x as many murders. That’s fucked up.

Re: Why did 250k Britons die sooner than expected?

#167

Post by Jonnax » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:24 PM UTC

cyclotron3k wrote: post #124

nradov wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK NHS budget has been steadily increasing. You can't plausibly claim that the Tories have defunded public health over decades. Some might claim that the funding should have increased at a faster rate, but there are limits to what any society can spend on healthcare. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-...

Very interesting. So what's causing the blowout in A&E wait times?

More money doesn't just mean better service.

For example, I spoke to a doctor that has to travel between multiple hospitals during the course of their work.

There used to be an in-house service that the NHS owned for transporting medical staff between locations.

That has been privatised as in a contract has gone out for tender and a company won to do the service.

The service used to be reliable. Now they often have to book Ubers out of pocket to get where they need on time.

The inhouse service is gone. So of course and renewals are going to cost more.

When people talk about the deterioration of the service, a common counterargument is that the money being spent is going up as a way to shut down conversation.

Re: Why did 250k Britons die sooner than expected?

#168

Post by Jonnax » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:30 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #104

amrocha wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it, and especially compared to the US it's a huge upgrade

The US is a single place? I did not know that.

It's funny that you generalised a region of 12.2 million but then is offended by someone generalising the US.

You've repeated a cliche about the city.

Did you live there? Anything particular?

That made you decide: "never live there, though"

Re: Why did 250k Britons die sooner than expected?

#169

Post by amrocha » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:58 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #104

amrocha wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it, and especially compared to the US it's a huge upgrade

The US is a single place? I did not know that.

Everywhere in the US is subject to the same dysfunctional government and awful societal design.

Even the best place in the US is worse than Paris

Re: Why did 250k Britons die sooner than expected?

#170

Post by netsharc » Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 1:11 PM UTC

aix1 wrote: post #151

londons_explore wrote: post #35

In my district in the UK, there were occasions when average wait times for an ambulance for a Category 1 incident (eg. person not breathing) reached 48 hours last month. The target is 90% of patients reached in 15 minutes. Yet the reality is the average wait was 48 hours. I can't see any way that kind of thing isn't contributing to a shorter life expectancy.

> In my district in the UK, there were occasions when average wait times for an ambulance for a Category 1 incident (eg. person not breathing) reached 48 hours last month. This is a pretty shocking number. Where can I read more about this?

How about a search engine: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ambulance+wait+times+uk&ia=web

E.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/20/world/europe/uk-ambulance...

The waits are crazy long because hospitals are full, so the ambulances end up outside the hospital entrance for a long time, waiting for a free bed for their patient/passenger.