Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hmm, I don't think I would have been quite as quick to hit the flag button. The (now missing?) PP comment to me read "probably couldn't get into an Ivy" with the crux being that Stanford is of course not part of the Ivy League. (But Yale Law School is certainly part of Yale, though iirc it's rare for graduate or professional students to play in the NCAA due to eligibility.) Sometimes people forget that the Ivy League…
On your profile page there is a setting called "Show dead", enable it if you want to see the skeleton threads.
Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel
91–100 of 190 posts
Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is totally ridiculous; virtually all of the Ivies offer need-blind funding; if you're admitted, then you're going to get whatever amount of scholarship you need to go. You can look at Yale's details here: https://finaid.yale.edu/costs-affordability/affordability ... e.g. virtually all families earning less than $75K per year will get a full-ride plus a $2,000 grant in the first year. Are you seriously criticizin…
> e.g. virtually all families earning less than $75K per year will get a full-ride plus a $2,000 grant in the first year. and some middle class parents with two kids need to sell house to cover tuition?..
Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel
#93Cui bono? There are a lot of problems with the Ivy League, the lack of athletic scholarships are one of the few things they do absolutely right. The thing is that athletics are less, not more democratic as a distribution mechanism for admission slots. The author seems to be under the mistaken belief that most of these slots would be available for your football and basketball players, where stories of rising from pove…
Netflix has a docu-series called "Last Chance U" about the junior college athletic system and how it operates. I knew intellectually that college athletes were coddled academically and while it's hard not to root for the individuals depicted in the documentary to succeed it's also hard not to think that there must be dozens of kids at the schools where they come from that were more academically inclined and could hav…
Last Chance U is great and a great insight, I really enjoy the show, and get heart broken for these kids. You can't really get schaudenfraude when they fail like other shows or dramas.
But there's a few things you may not have caught, which seems to be the same across most college sports and just exacerbates as you become more competitive/make more cash like a D1 school.
When I was in season I spent 5-8 hours a day on the sport. 3 hours for practice, 1-2 hours reading scouting reports, in rehab, working out, or watching film. On game day it was a good 8 hours if we weren't traveling, a full day if we were (longest bus ride was 7.5 h each way). We calculated that we spent around 3600 hours in sports over 4 years. That's over a part time job and nearing full time job while working.
This makes it real hard to get to normal tutoring sessions which are in the afternoon many places. Or to labs, or office hours, etc. At my school the athletic department (ad) just got the big classes to setup tutoring sessions in the athletic complex (ac). They were open to anyone actually. But we had better discipline (a coach would sit in on many sessions and deal with any disruptions) and better hours so we got some of the best tutors to show up. My physics 101 tutor had to move to the gym he was so popular.
Now move to Last Chance U... kids who have been failed in many ways by high schools who didn't teach them, parents, themselves, or just not being quite good enough to "make it" but not ready to realize that. They need a ton of help. This is very much the last chance for these kids at ball or making it through that avenue. Making it via sports is what 80% of these kids think is literally their only option. Tho there's the lineman in the first season was like "it'll get me a degree and out of the factory."
But if you pay attention, most of those sessions the players are at, they're for all of the students, who also have guidance counselors. The difference is just that the Athletic Department pays for a guidance counselor, and the coach is a surrogate parent for these kids (who happens to work there), and the GC and the coaches, they talk and these kids have to stay eligible to play or to go to the school. Normal students can ignore the GC, and fail out, and they're not on TV. The players can't.
If you haven't played school sports or don't have kids who play sports, a coach can often wield more influence over a kid than parents can. My friend just immigrated, his kid was playing sports, and my friend was lamenting his kid was slacking off. I suggested he email the coach. That evening the kid apologized to his dad and set up a study schedule he showed his dad and his grades went up a letter over the next month. Basically the coach brought the kid to his office during study hour and said "you're going to run a lot and your play time is going to go down if you don't get your grades back up." that's all it took. As a regular parent generally if you said "go run till you puke or realize you should get your grades up" you'd get laughed at.
Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel
#94Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How is this different from a HomeOwner's Association (HOA) enforcing community standards? This is a horrible comparison. Ivy league schools are competiting businesses in a market. Much different than a group of homes, which really aren't directly competing in a market. (even though, I am sure you can twist an argument that they are. They really aren't. Most people are not trying to sell their homes, and there are a…
> Because 1 ivy league school should have no business forcing a different school on the other side of the country on how they run their business Fortunately, all the Ivy League schools are on the same side, in same corner even, of the country.
Because houses in the same HOA are literally right next to each other. Like a block away, whereas the same is not true for schools.
Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly I’d prefer admission of an athlete who prioritizes an Ivy League degree over money to admission of one more silver-spoon legacy.
In my experience at an Ivy, these things often dovetail because of the types of sports they choose to recruit (outside of football & basketball) tend to be of the decidedly more squash, crew, equestrian sports, etc. that bias towards new england elites.
There's also Track and Field, which generally you can do cheaply and anywhere.
After that you start getting restrictions on where you can do them and what it costs to do them. So obvioulsy they'll be done more by the "elite"
Other college sports:
Hockey: Quite expensive gear, ice time. Maybe in Canada? In the US football pays for all the gear, in much of the US you buy your own hockey gear for like $1k.
Tennis: These days maybe not as elite, can be quite accessible, but historically quite elite.
Golf: Golf actually has a huge blue collar contingent, but still seems pretty elite.
Swimming: You need a pool, you need heat or an indoor pool, likely regionally dependent on elite vs accessible.
Wrestling: you can do this anywhere, I never see it in a public park. Well, most of the time.
Field Hockey / Lacross: These are new england elite sports for the most part. Wish I played LAX in HS actually, would have been less fat.
Skiing: Access, expensive equipment. Heck the northeast doesn't even have good ski slopes.
Sailing/Equestrian: lol, $$$$ for the "vehicle" and you need land or access to a large body of water, both quite spendy.
Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel
#97Cui bono? There are a lot of problems with the Ivy League, the lack of athletic scholarships are one of the few things they do absolutely right. The thing is that athletics are less, not more democratic as a distribution mechanism for admission slots. The author seems to be under the mistaken belief that most of these slots would be available for your football and basketball players, where stories of rising from pove…
> the lack of athletic scholarships are one of the few things they do absolutely right. The thing is that athletics are less, not more democratic as a distribution mechanism for admission slots A more basic problem with "athletic scholarships" is that being an athlete has absolutely nothing to do with being an academic/scholar/student of something else. It might be a good way to bring some publicity to the school, an…
You bond and make lifelong friends. Also a great place to find a partner for life.
Athletic departments are vital to the university system in American schools and their local economies.
Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
You act as if governments throughout history haven’t committed atrocities a thousands times more gruesome than this. I’m fact, I can think of a fairly famous example within the past hundred years.
Come on, give examples please don't leave me hanging! I think the Mafia are sick fucks, but lots of governments have been too. No shortage of violence in this pit of animals on this stupid space rock. But thousands of times more gruesome than that!? That's wild. I've watched Cartel vids where they slice open and expose the vocal cords laterally as their victims wail, creating otherworldly sounds. But that's like... M…
But, the Mongol government creating mountains of skulls that appear to travelers in the distance to be snow covered mountains with such a trail of human remains that the “grease” renders their horses immobile is pretty darn brutal.
Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel
#99I suspect many of their football programs barely, if at all support themselves with the income they have for that given sport.
I doubt their other sports are much more profitable...
So what then? Force them to offer athletic scholarships?
I feel like this lawsuit is trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
>They may open their own sports schools and whatnot. why would they open themselves up to those kinds of expenses and liabilities when their feeder systems are working just fine for them now?
College isn't supposed to be a farm league. Baseball has a workable system and they have the most grueling schedule of all professional sports. Nothing prevents the NFL and NBA from doing the same.
because they don't have a grueling sport.