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Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

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Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#51

For some reason I can't reply to a comment that said > Author is biased, probably couldn't get to one of those schools... Ad hominem attack, but I was amused even though the facts don't precisely support the accusation. It is technically true that Prof. Carter didn't attend an Ivy League school as an undergraduate - he went to Stanford, which (currently) plays in the Pac-12 and NCAA division I. Of course that doesn't…

Because it was marked dead. replying to flame bait comments is precisely what HN tries to avoid when it does that, but you found your workaround :)

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point. It is not a problem of an individual school refusing to give academic scholarships. Instead the problem is the schools all agreeing together to do this. By all means, let each university individually choose if they want to allow scholarships or not, with zero agreement between the schools.

How is this different from a HomeOwner's Association (HOA) enforcing community standards? I don't understand the linked article (or your) point about this being some sort of illegal collusion. Can you help me understand how this is fundamentally different from an HOA enforcing things like "no boat parking"?

HOAs should be illegal as well.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#53
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and the institution of the "college application essay". Does any other country have that?

College application essays for undergraduate degrees vary a lot by country. The UK UCAS admission system used for all undergraduate admissions requires an application text. It is much freer in its form than how I understand the US system with a very specific prompt. As for Norway, to pick another random example, there is no requirement to submit any piece of writing to explain your motivation. Your grades do all the…

The difference between UCAS and US system is that UCAS is universal essay whereas US “common app” has both universal and school specific essays.

Honestly i much prefer the US system to my exposure to the british system, much easier to apply to multiple schools in the US

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different from a HomeOwner's Association (HOA) enforcing community standards? I don't understand the linked article (or your) point about this being some sort of illegal collusion. Can you help me understand how this is fundamentally different from an HOA enforcing things like "no boat parking"?

The schools offer competing services for the consumers. They've all agreed to not compete for certain consumers in the same way. Does that help you? An HOA is not an appropriate metaphor.

A university shouldn’t be in the business of competition for athletic stars. Let NBA and other sports organizations do that. They may open their own sports schools and whatnot.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#58
post #33

Athletic scholarships is one of those very foreign concepts, for us outside the US. Seems like a uniquely (North) American thing?

Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial College in the UK admit students and provide benefits, scholarships and bursaries to people that are considered world class rowing talent, quietly and unofficially. Many European countries have special programs for sports talents to develop and receive economic benefits whilst serving military service and/or seeking higher education. Most people don't know anything about these programs…

Having competed in The Boat Race, this is unequivocally false at Oxford and Cambridge.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point. It is not a problem of an individual school refusing to give academic scholarships. Instead the problem is the schools all agreeing together to do this. By all means, let each university individually choose if they want to allow scholarships or not, with zero agreement between the schools.

How is this different from a HomeOwner's Association (HOA) enforcing community standards? I don't understand the linked article (or your) point about this being some sort of illegal collusion. Can you help me understand how this is fundamentally different from an HOA enforcing things like "no boat parking"?

> How is this different from a HomeOwner's Association (HOA) enforcing community standards?

This is a horrible comparison. Ivy league schools are competiting businesses in a market. Much different than a group of homes, which really aren't directly competing in a market.

(even though, I am sure you can twist an argument that they are. They really aren't. Most people are not trying to sell their homes, and there are a lot of homes all around the world. 'market collusion' between a couple homes not a big deal compared to huge businesses doing it).

> from an HOA enforcing things like "no boat parking"?

Because 1 ivy league school should have no business forcing a different school on the other side of the country on how they run their business, thats why.

Thats market collusion.

Re: Ivy League Schools Sure Look Like a Cartel

#60
Cui bono?

There are a lot of problems with the Ivy League, the lack of athletic scholarships are one of the few things they do absolutely right. The thing is that athletics are less, not more democratic as a distribution mechanism for admission slots. The author seems to be under the mistaken belief that most of these slots would be available for your football and basketball players, where stories of rising from poverty are commonplace at the highest level. That's simply not the case at Ivies. You think underrepresented and the economically disadvantaged are rowing or playing squash or fencing or golfing or diving at the level where this would matter? Sure, there are ways of making this equitable, but that's not solved by the scope of this argument.

The fact is that athletics has been a backdoor for admissions, and always used to exclude, not to include, those outside the upper class. The college admission scandal showed as much, with the Stanford sailing coach. It has historical roots in excluding Jewish students, and it's currently used to exclude Asian students among maintaining a proportion of elite students.

Certainly, it looks like price fixing, and I don't have a problem with that argument, but I would prefer is more universities took courage to actually focus on academics like chicago, caltech, mit, etc.

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