Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

citoyens.soquij.qc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 318 posts

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#141

Post by SonicScrub »

version_five wrote: post #122
nucleardog wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If you don’t live in Ottawa, please stop trying to tell us how peaceful and reasonable the attempt at overthrowing our democratically elected government, attended by nazis flying swastikas on our monuments and involving people trying to burn down buildings, was.

Lol (Just to be clear, is case anyone doesn't know about this, the above is either an absolutely insane or absurdly dishonest characterization, it's easy to do your own research)

I did my own research on the subject when I attempted to skate down the canal (a usually enjoyable winter activity) during that time period. The above characterization is mostly correct. However they forgot to mention the racial slurs. They also forgot to mention the constant harassment of medical staff at city hospitals just trying to get to and from work.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#142

Post by fsckboy »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #137
version_five wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada's charter of rights and freedoms isn't worth the paper it's printed on, especially in Quebec where the government actively pre-empts it (it has a clause that allows this, explaining why it's worthless) when it doesn't line up with their ideology.

Outside the specifically legislated scopes where those overrides are in use, or for the parts of the Charter that aren’t subject to the override, courts can and routinely do enforce the charter by invalidating actions or laws. It’s very far from worthless, even if you and I both would rather the override clause didn’t exist. At least, the overrides expire after 5 years if not re-legislated for a new 5 years, so polit…

is there any merit to the complaint that some recent legislation in Canada has turned purview of some free speech matters over to "human rights tribunals" which, the complaint alleges, do not accord the same robust due process rights defendants have in courts?

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#143

Post by Waterluvian »

908B64B197 wrote: post #139
Waterluvian wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also written somewhere that I’m subject to a king, so I’m not really free anyways. Also I don’t actually own any land. It all belongs to my king. That’s written down too. This is actually a really fascinating subject but not for a Friday night. Long story short: what’s written, and what actually is, are often quite different. I find my American friends sometimes freak out over the “but they could take your freed…

> I find my American friends sometimes freak out over the “but they could take your freedoms away!” when they read about stuff like that But did they? > It’s also written somewhere that I’m subject to a king, so I’m not really free anyways. Also I don’t actually own any land. It all belongs to my king. That’s written down too. Is it something that people are proud of? A big part of the culture?

Nobody here really cares about the monarchy beyond the novelty. But we don’t feel threatened by the fact that technically the monarchy has sweeping powers to dissolve government and walk away with our freedoms. Heck we aren’t even accumulating weapons just in case!

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#144

Post by refurb »

acover wrote: post #85
version_five wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada's charter of rights and freedoms isn't worth the paper it's printed on, especially in Quebec where the government actively pre-empts it (it has a clause that allows this, explaining why it's worthless) when it doesn't line up with their ideology.

We grant you this right, not withstanding any desire we have to take it away.

No to mention the rather flippant suspension of Charter Rights during the Trucker Convoy.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#145

Post by eyelidlessness »

> He even claimed that “dipshit” is not really an insult. It is merely a nickname like any other; an innocuous form of slang

What an amazing self own. Especially when you could very plausibly say you had a heated reaction and accept it with very minimal consequences for judgement. But by all means double down!

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#146

Post by error418s »

Waterluvian wrote: post #62

Read the whole thing. It's very digestible. The judge is absolutely livid with the complainant.

> [149] On what basis did he fear that Mr. Epstein was a potential murderer? The fact that he went for quiet walks with his kids? The fact that he socialized with the other young parents on the street? If that is the standard, we should all fear that our neighbours are killers in waiting. Hide your kids, hide your wives. We are all in mortal danger.

The judge's writing is amazing.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#147

Post by tonyarkles »

barbazoo wrote: post #56
908B64B197 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's colorful for court documents. I don't see how it could have turned out any other way. I'm just surprised he was actually arrested for something that's obviously covered by the first amendment. This reeks incompetence from the district attorney, trying to intimidate the man out of his rights like that.

> I'm just surprised he was actually arrested for something that's obviously covered by the first amendment FYI, This is in Canada

To be fair, despite being Canada, the judge agrees with you. At the start:

> [5] To the complainants, the presence of young families outside it is a source of scorn and vivid resentment that ultimately spilled over into a criminal complaint against their neighbour. A school teacher. A caring father of two young daughters who committed no crime whatsoever. A man who has somehow been subjected to criminal charges for almost two years.

> [6] This injustice ends today.

And at the end:

> [168] To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger. Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian. It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly.

> [169] Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability. Offending someone is not a crime. It is an integral component of one’s freedom of expression. Citizens are to be thicker-skinned, especially when they behave in ways that are highly likely to trigger such profanity – like driving too fast on a street where innocent kids are playing. Being told to “fuck off” should not prompt a call to 9-1-1.

> [170] On that topic, the evidence in the case at bar established that even after the accused’s arrest, therefore after the period covered by these charges, Michael Naccache called the police again to report that Mr. Epstein’s wife had given them the finger while walking on the street.[55]

> [171] This needs to stop. The complainants are free to clutch their pearls in the face of such an insult. However, the police department and the 9-1-1 dispatching service have more important priorities to address.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#148

Post by Dalewyn »

jawns wrote: post #94

In the U.S., however, First Amendment protection for flipping the bird is not considered "clearly established" law in some portions of the country, and police officers can be protected by qualified immunity if they arrest you in retaliation for displaying the middle finger. The U.S. Courts of Appeal for the 2nd Circuit and 6th Circuit have held that flipping the bird is protected speech. (See Swartz v. Insogna, 2013,…

>(Guessford held up a handmade "RADAR AHEAD" sign while standing near a speed trap, and the police ripped up the sign, then later pulled him over and cited him in retaliation for flipping them the bird.)

The police can have fun fighting the likes of Google and Apple, since their map programs feature speed trap warnings.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#149

Post by jpambrun »

version_five wrote: post #65
tjohns wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first amendment to the US constitution does not apply to Canada. Unless you believe US law is globally binding. (That said, Canada does have their own freedom of speech, under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.)

Canada's charter of rights and freedoms isn't worth the paper it's printed on, especially in Quebec where the government actively pre-empts it (it has a clause that allows this, explaining why it's worthless) when it doesn't line up with their ideology.

This charter and the constitution was imposed unilaterally, and adopted at night without the presence of Quebec representatives. So.. can't really blame us for not being in love with it..

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#150

Post by tonyarkles »

refurb wrote: post #144
acover wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We grant you this right, not withstanding any desire we have to take it away.

No to mention the rather flippant suspension of Charter Rights during the Trucker Convoy.

One of the most frustrating things about that whole situation with the Emergencies Act is the people simultaneously shouting "they have to use it, it's the only way for them to have the power to shut it down!" and "no one's rights are being violated!"

I found the final report on the whole EA invocation to be reasonable. It found that the use of the EA was warranted, but also made it crystal clear that a) other people could look at the same facts and come to a different conclusion, and b) that the only reason it got to the point where it needed to be invoked was due to government incompetence at the municipal, provincial, and federal level.

Post reply on HN