Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#211

Post by andrepd » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 10:14 PM UTC

angelgonzales wrote: post #175

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tariffs would increase the cost of these outrageously profitable products decreasing their market reducing sales. All things capitalists hate. Lofty goals like safe working conditions will always be fought against by capitalists who, by design of their own, are completely disconnected from the reality their greed creates.

There are no alternative economic systems without questionable environmental and safety records. Any production system will be designed to maximize outputs at the quality the customer requires while minimizing process inputs. Whatever psychological and social framework is used organize companies, governments and individuals, the individual workers will still be performing the same assembly processes on the factory fl…

That's a nonsensical statement. Slavery, feudalism, and neoliberal states all attempt to produce as efficiently as possible, but they're obviously quite different...

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#212

Post by thescriptkiddie » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 10:18 PM UTC

jaywalk wrote: post #90

QuercusMax wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly; this idea that we HAVE to overwork our medical professionals is just outdated, and especially since COVID, actively detrimental to our healthcare systems. Hire more people, pay them more, and give them time off so they don't burn out or get sick themselves.

> Hire more people Sure. Where are all of these medical professionals who are looking for work?

Fun fact, the American Medical Association artificially limits the number of doctors that can go through residency programs each year. The limit is actually lower than the number of medical school graduates, forcing some small number of new doctors to leave the country because they aren't allowed to become licensed.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#213

Post by lazyeye » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 10:26 PM UTC

skc wrote: post #183

Somehow, Apple will have a moving video about their human centered values at their next product launch and there won't be a dry eye in the room. It's sickening how effective it is.

Yes these are the kinds of people in Silicon Valley that like to lecture everybody else on how to think and behave.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#214

Post by QuercusMax » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 10:41 PM UTC

jaywalk wrote: post #90

QuercusMax wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly; this idea that we HAVE to overwork our medical professionals is just outdated, and especially since COVID, actively detrimental to our healthcare systems. Hire more people, pay them more, and give them time off so they don't burn out or get sick themselves.

> Hire more people Sure. Where are all of these medical professionals who are looking for work?

We should be aggressively recruiting and training folks to go into the medical professions, and paying for their training so you don't have to go into huge debt to become a doctor.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#215

Post by s1artibartfast » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 10:43 PM UTC

kennywinker wrote: post #202

s1artibartfast wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is the rational to come into a situation and assume that everyone but you is wrong and incapable of judging what is best for them. in India there are hundreds of millions of workers that would love to work 12 hours shifts for more pay and a better quality of life. I'm sure there are advantages to the factory as well.

The reason it's wrong is that if you work for 12 hours per day, and sleep for 8 hours per day, that leaves you with only 4 hours per day for living your ONE AND ONLY life

The problem is you don't know what the next best alternative is for that person.

Maybe that option is working 18 hours getting fucked in a brothel and sleeping 6 hours.

Maybe that option is working 8 hours, but watching your children starve to death.

If people are lining up for these jobs, it is clearly better than their next best option in their mind. Who are you to say they are wrong?

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#216

Post by archon1410 » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 10:59 PM UTC

kennywinker wrote: post #191

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of when people in China were expected to work on Saturdays back in 1999. Developing countries often require 48 hours a week as a way of catching up.

A way of "catching up"? Demanding an inhumane amount of work out of people doesn't help those people catch up, it uses up their one and only life to create wealth for a few elites in their country, and shareholders outside their country.

It's mainly the country "catching up". One would think development of China helped more than just a "few elites in their country".

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#217

Post by archon1410 » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:03 PM UTC

geodel wrote: post #161

potamic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's terrible for the workers, because currently they get overtime pay beyond 9 hours, this law effectively reduces overtime by 3 hours. Women also play a bigger role in running the household, and with 12-hour shifts plus commute time, this must take a big toll on the family.

Well family is the last thing on mind for Economic planners and political class. They have this cartoonish belief that they can beat China by having worse labor laws on workers' welfare.

> they have this cartoonish belief that they can beat China by having worse labor laws on workers' welfare.

Is it really cartoonish when everyone apparently agrees that China became what it is today by having worse labour laws then the rest of the world?

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#218

Post by archon1410 » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:08 PM UTC

alephnerd wrote: post #94

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are - relatively - good jobs, right?

Not particularly. You're earning around $2.5k a year (1.8 lpa) which isn't the most competitive even in most of India tbh, especially when factoring CoL in Karnataka. If this was Andhra Pradesh, Rajasthan, or Harit Pradesh/Western UP (regions of India with the right mix of supply chain and cheap labor), it might fly with migrants from Bihar, Purvanchal, and the Tribal Belt, but definetly not in KN. You can easily ear…

1.8 lpa is better than what many "uskilled" labourers make even in Karnataka. 1.1 to 1.44 lpa (9k to 12k a month) is what the cleaners, for example, makes in a college where someone I know studies. Daily wage labourers make a similar amount.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#219

Post by e12e » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:28 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #163

e12e wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A point of comparison - in Norway employers need special dispensation to have workers work more than 100 hours overtime per year (with max 40 regular hours/week and five weeks paid vacation time).

True, but Norway is an oil nation.

So is Qatar. (apparently 48 hour week / 8 hour day - two weeks of vacation - overtime to be compensated 25% - unsure about limits?)

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#220

Post by AlecSchueler » Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:30 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #152

AlecSchueler wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes it harder for women who want to participate to participate. Simple as that. Women aren't commodities whose freedoms should be limited relative to men because of what it might do to "demographics and families." Women aren't slaves to be tied to home. They have agency and should be awarded the same legal freedoms as men.

It’s not that simple though. Being a house slave is bad, being a factory slave is too and that’s what others here are saying this is. Perhaps this isn’t actual progress?

That's an issue that needs to be tackled, certainly, but "solving" the issue by limiting women's rights relative to men and stripping them of their choices is horrific.