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Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

citoyens.soquij.qc.ca

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Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#71

Post by m_0x »

codetrotter wrote: post #68
m_0x wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be very difficult to accidentally find yourself on this street, driving quickly. As a parent of a 6 years old, I always assume all drivers are not paying attention to the road but rather to their phones when my kid is playing in the street (with supervision because I don't know if he will react quickly to a car coming his way) It sucks, because I used to play in the street without supervision (to my best k…

> I used to play in the street without supervision (to my best knowledge) Bro, when I was a kid we went as far as to me intentionally walking into the street to slow cars down just to see what would happen ‘:) Kids are crazy. Myself in the past included.

That's exactly why I'm sad of the precautions I take. Back then drivers had less distractions while driving. Of course there was the occasionally distracted driver but nowadays is more common than what it used to be thanks to the smartphone.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#72

Post by kwhitefoot »

josefx wrote: post #30
kwhitefoot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If @ggambetta believes that there are people with influence in society who take the idiom literally then it would be reasonable for @ggambetta to be concerned and to have a problem with the idiom. Perhaps the judge could have used a more precise legal formula to avoid just this kind of concern.

> If @ggambetta believes that there are people with influence in society who take the idiom literally then it would be reasonable for @ggambetta to be concerned and to have a problem with the idiom. Can't the same be said for people who believe the world is flat? After all they believe it, so their concern about the round world conspiracy has to be reasonable, right? I think there might be a tiny gap in your reasonin…

The flat earthers don't use their beliefs as a means to force their world view on the rest of us, plenty of god botherers do.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#73

Post by wil421 »

m_0x wrote: post #66
cldellow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From reading the decision and looking at Google Maps: the street is a short, narrow dead-end street in the suburbs. Most of the people who live there have young children who play together. It would be very difficult to accidentally find yourself on this street, driving quickly. Of course, it's dangerous in the sense that anything to do with cars is dangerous. But it seems pretty safe as far as these things go.

> It would be very difficult to accidentally find yourself on this street, driving quickly. As a parent of a 6 years old, I always assume all drivers are not paying attention to the road but rather to their phones when my kid is playing in the street (with supervision because I don't know if he will react quickly to a car coming his way) It sucks, because I used to play in the street without supervision (to my best k…

Teach your kids to move out of the street and stand in the sidewalk or yard. My 3 year old is trained to do this and will do it on her own, still working on doing it 100% of the time.

Neighborhoods have not gone up in speed limits it’s 25 in residential streets unless you live directly off a main road.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#74

Post by standardUser »

cldellow wrote: post #37
SkeuomorphicBee wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all the police did was investigate, then their conduct would have been fine. But they arrested him, and that is not adequate conduct.

On the one hand, knowing what we know now, I certainly agree it would be preferable if he wasn't arrested. On the other hand, the neighbour had made at least 4 reports to the police about harassment and death threats. I believe the neighbour's brother and parents had also spoken to the police in support of these claims. On the day of the arrest, the neighbour had _just_ made the most serious claim yet--about death th…

"I certainly agree it would be preferable if he wasn't arrested."

We should actually be completely fucking outraged that any citizen can be forcibly detained on the whim of the police for non-violent behavior. Yet you seem to think it's just fine to deny a person every basic human right on the whim of some cop?

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#75

Post by freetime2 »

Here’s the specific “God-given right” passage from the ruling. So satisfying:

[168] To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger. Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian. It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly.

[169] Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability. Offending someone is not a crime. It is an integral component of one’s freedom of expression. Citizens are to be thicker-skinned, especially when they behave in ways that are highly likely to trigger such profanity – like driving too fast on a street where innocent kids are playing. Being told to “fuck off” should not prompt a call to 9-1-1.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#76

Post by standardUser »

alephxyz wrote: post #26
colpabar wrote: post #5

I know saying "fuck the police" is an overused cliche at this point but how the fuck can anyone have any respect for the police as a whole when this is the shit they do? In canada they arrest you for a hand gesture and in america they arrest you for letting your children walk outside. How could any sane member of society go to a person's house and arrest them for these things? And they still have the nerve to complai…

Looks like the cops did the right thing there : >In his testimony, Naccache simply says that the police treated it like a neighbourly dispute and accordingly declined to press the matter further. They were “not keen of processing a harassment complaint”.[11] However, he conveniently omits mentioning what he noted in his written log. >The log reveals that, to his dismay, the police officer informed him that his brothe…

Hard to imagine "the right thing" ever involves using force to detain a citizen who poses no urgent threat and has not engaged in violent behavior. That detainment may be temporary, but it is a complete and utter denial of all basic human rights to the person being detained.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#77

Post by SllX »

tjohns wrote: post #58
908B64B197 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that's colorful for court documents. I don't see how it could have turned out any other way. I'm just surprised he was actually arrested for something that's obviously covered by the first amendment. This reeks incompetence from the district attorney, trying to intimidate the man out of his rights like that.

The first amendment to the US constitution does not apply to Canada. Unless you believe US law is globally binding. (That said, Canada does have their own freedom of speech, under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.)

So actually it is, but not in the way that it applies to other countries.

The First Amendment is a a flat limitation of Congressional power, not a rights grant. So in that way, it is globally binding as it applies to laws that the United States Congress may make as they pertain to e.g. US citizens residing in Canada, or really even Canadians at home or in the US.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#78

Post by unixgoddess »

blendergeek wrote: post #23
UncleEntity wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To "prove" his point that it was dangerous he drove recklessly around the kids in the street. It probably is dangerous [0] because people don’t let their kids play in the street anymore so drivers aren’t used to having them there. Not like when I was a kid where we would get ball games going and pause to let the cars pass. People expected kids to be playing in the street so didn’t drive like complete lunatics. Can’…

> Not like when I was a kid where we would get ball games going and pause to let the cars pass. People expected kids to be playing in the street so didn’t drive like complete lunatics. In my neighborhood kids play in the street all the time. There are basketball goals up and down my street and the kids pause the ball games to let the cars pass. Are you sure that you don't just live in a different place now?

doesn't the noise from basketballs hitting concrete/asphalt drive you guys nuts?

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#79

Post by mnkv »

belval wrote: post #8

If you look past the headline, this story is almost "basic sanity". The guy's neighbour didn't want the accused's kids playing in the street (in the suburbs) because they have a yard. To "prove" his point that it was dangerous he drove recklessly around the kids in the street. The accused flipped him off and (allegedly because he denies it) threatened him. Now frankly, I don't see why this would be hackernews-worthy,…

Did you read the whole report??? The complainant is essentially stalking his neighbour with surveillance footage, recording any time the neighbour so much as looks in his direction, and keeps a stalker-ish log book with insults. On top of that his wife and his father nearly hit the neighbour's 4 year olds with a car and then say they refuse to slow down. The report says the car was "inches away" from another person and that kid would have been run over!

And then the complainant has the audacity to file criminal suit over his neighbour giving him middle finger after he does it first! This story is about basic insanity.

Re: Giving the finger is a ‘God-given right’, Canadian judge rules

#80

Post by jakear »

unixgoddess wrote: post #78
blendergeek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not like when I was a kid where we would get ball games going and pause to let the cars pass. People expected kids to be playing in the street so didn’t drive like complete lunatics. In my neighborhood kids play in the street all the time. There are basketball goals up and down my street and the kids pause the ball games to let the cars pass. Are you sure that you don't just live in a different place now?

doesn't the noise from basketballs hitting concrete/asphalt drive you guys nuts?

It's not nearly as bad as the sound of children laughing.
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