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KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

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Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#121

Post by dragonwriter »

norwalkbear wrote: post #108
wil421 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To say the American people were full of Marxism in the 80s and 90s is completely made up. I would say today is closer to what he was taking about than the 80s every were.

He says it takes three generations to reveal, so 80/90s being the start of subversion makes perfect sense.

> He says it takes three generations to reveal, so 80/90s being the start of subversion makes perfect sense

He was saying it takes 2-3 generations to the point where it is internal and self-sustaining, and that that had already been achieved in the 1980s in America.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#122

Post by rasz »

yucky wrote: post #115
mopsi wrote: post #32

This ties well into the "three days to Kyiv" expectation at the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russians really did think that Ukraine had been subverted to a degree that it would just roll over and die; that leadership would run away and local resistance would be limited to disorganized pockets that riot police could suppress, but their informants and agents just stole the money and reported what the Kreml…

> This ties well into the "three days to Kyiv" expectation at the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This is actually a great example of our own propaganda at work. This "Three Days" quote came from one of our Generals, not from Russia. Putin's statements from early on are all widely available (with English transcriptions) and they do not in anyway sound like the words of someone expecting to annex Ukraine int…

russians claimed two days. Here Margarita Simonyan https://twitter.com/ruinwanderer/status/1622142324015878144

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#123

Post by rasz »

noduerme wrote: post #2

It's crazy. I know a Russian guy who is exactly like this; I debate with him all the time. Almost every night. About the war. Bluntly invested in winning, regardless of what the system looks like; even admitting that it's a terrible system; using weak arguments for why people need structural dominance, while simultaneously arguing in favor of "the people" - (and using a historical American failings as a way to draw f…

Good documentary about the level of brainwashing in ru

Disconnection | A film by Andrey Loshak (Разрыв связи | Фильм Андрея Лошака)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qmQs2LbnaE [english subs]

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#124

Post by abecedarius »

tokai wrote: post #118
stuckinhell wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would certainly explain how "political correctness" a soviet concept made it into the american public consciousness far more than other nations of the world. Edited: Since I'm being downvoted. Political Correctness wasn't really a thing until around the 80's, the same time period as the cold war. It really is acommunist term. The term "political correctness" first appeared in Marxist–Leninist vocabulary following…

The two PC terms are not related. In the start of the last century political correctness was about the correct adherence to ideology. The modern PC is a describer coined by us conservatives to label progressive political goals.

I guess I'll weigh in with my lived experience as a teenager at the time of the interview. I would've told you (maybe a few years later) "political correctness" in the U.S. started as an ironic term among lefty types with a sense of humor about their own milieu, which resonated more widely and got taken as ammunition and shortened to "PC" by more righty culture warriors.

I think this was originally a kind of joke but referencing a real phenomenon in soviet-style regimes. Like http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/ha-ha-only-serious.html

Now just how much this Western lefty culture was influenced by deliberate influence ops, that's the question I was hoping to learn about from this interview.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#125

Post by steve76 »

abecedarius wrote: post #57

Summary of near-14-minute video, since I certainly wished someone else had posted one to help me decide whether to watch: Says the KGB works mainly at ideological subversion of the enemy society, not James Bond stuff. This has 4 stages: - Demoralization. Slow, takes at least a generation to take hold or be reversed. U.S. is 3 generations in, graduates have positions of influence, and now it's mostly done by Americans…

[dead]

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#126

Post by cscurmudgeon »

anonymousiam wrote: post #24
pessimizer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Even worse, the US is about to ban TikTok. At first I thought they were only going to ban it for government and contractor devices, but it seems now that it will be banned for everyone. I don't use TikTok and probably never will, but how is this bill even constitutionally legal? I understand the concerns about data collection, but the USG seems more concerned about WHO is doing the collecting rather than the collecti…

1. The US hasn't banned TikTok yet. A lot of steps are there.

2. TikTok has CCP board members. So comparing it US companies is not fair.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#127

Post by cscurmudgeon »

anonymousiam wrote: post #80
ok_dad wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US is about to ban TikTok There are a LOT more steps to making a bill a law[0] than this, so “about to” is pretty disingenuous. [0]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Otbml6WIQPo

It's on the way to Biden's desk, and he has said that he will sign it. https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/08/tech/biden-tiktok-bill/index....

> A dozen US senators unveiled legislation on Tuesday called the Restricting the Emergence of Security Threats that Risk Information and Communications Technology (RESTRICT) Act. The bill does not target TikTok specifically for a ban.

The bill does not target TikTok specifically for a ban. I don't see the problem.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#128

Post by zozbot234 »

herbstein wrote: post #10

This interview keeps coming up, and I don't really understand why. It's utterly uninteresting. Bezmenov had an inconsequential role in the KGB. He was not privy to any large-scale details. Bezmenov defected in 1970. After his defection would not be privy to any new information. The interview is from 1984 and not 1985 as the title purports. Ultimately, the claims in this video are categorically false. We can observe t…

> First, after the collapse of the USSR no information on these efforts was revealed.

On the contrary, quite a bit of evidence about these "active measures" campaigns was later found in the Mitrokhin Archives. Thing is, ideologies tend to take on a life of their own long after their original cause has subsided. The current "post-modern" woke discourse in the Western world can be understood as essentially a zombie variant of precisely the sort of KGB indoctrination Bezmenov talks about, cross-mutated with the highly successful memeplex of the "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution" from China. (For better or for worse, Mao Zedong was greatly admired by radical youths in the 1970s and 1980s; and the Cultural Revolution - doing away with everything that's too old, traditional and counter to revolutionary goals - was very much credited to him at the time. Of course, we have since learned that the story was more complicated than that.)

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#129

Post by stuckinhell »

tokai wrote: post #118
stuckinhell wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would certainly explain how "political correctness" a soviet concept made it into the american public consciousness far more than other nations of the world. Edited: Since I'm being downvoted. Political Correctness wasn't really a thing until around the 80's, the same time period as the cold war. It really is acommunist term. The term "political correctness" first appeared in Marxist–Leninist vocabulary following…

The two PC terms are not related. In the start of the last century political correctness was about the correct adherence to ideology. The modern PC is a describer coined by us conservatives to label progressive political goals.

Actually they are very related.

Political Correctness in the soviet union was very similar to what we have today. The "Girl Boss" stuff pushed by Sheryl Sandberg is eerily similar to Stalin's "New Soviet Woman".

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#130

Post by somenameforme »

teachrdan wrote: post #112
yencabulator wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History sure does rhyme. They did the same thing in 1940, expecting to hold a parade in Finland with their front line troops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raate_Road

The US had many of the same expectations about victory in the second Iraq war.

And Ukraine... I've been unable to find any meaningful and direct quote from Russian military/political leaders stating they expected to immediately capture the city, but you can find plentiful US sources predicting exactly that:

---

"The sources said that the initial US assessment from before the invasion – which anticipated that the Ukrainian capital would be overrun within one to four days of a Russian attack – remains the current expectation." [1]

"Milley (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) told lawmakers during closed-door briefings on Feb. 2 and 3 that a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine could result in the fall of Kyiv within 72-hours, and could come at a cost of 15,000 Ukrainian troop deaths and 4,000 Russian troop deaths." [2]

---

It seems that the narrative largely swapped to this all being Putin's plan once it didn't work as out like our military/intelligence agencies expected.

[1] - https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/25/politics/kyiv-russia-ukra...

[2] - https://www.foxnews.com/us/gen-milley-says-kyiv-could-fall-w...

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