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KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

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Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#91

There is a good book on a different defector, Oleg Antonovich Gordievsky. The story is excellent - The Spy and the Traitor: The Greatest Espionage Story of the Cold War. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37542581-the-spy-and-the...

There is an eerily prophetic work by the high-ranking Eastern European military defector Golitsyn called "The Perestroika Deception"[1] in which he says that Perestroika is a strategic retreat because the Soviets know they are too far behind technologically to have any hope of defeating the west. They will however use that retreat to acquire modern technology and improve their economy so they can ultimately conquer t…

> "The Perestroika Deception"[1] in which he says that Perestroika is a strategic retreat because the Soviets know they are too far behind technologically to have any hope of defeating the west. They will however use that retreat to acquire modern technology and improve their economy so they can ultimately conquer the west.

Such generations lasting grand conspiracies just sound too fanciful to take seriously. I think the simpler explanation is that, yes, like the communists before him, Putin is a Russian imperialist. And rumor has it that Putin hates the communists with a fiery passion, for screwing up the grand Russian empire. Putin is doing his best to rekindle the empire, just using a more traditional authoritarian/fascist approach rather than relying on communist ideology.

Much of the old ways of working, the propaganda, supporting all kinds of nutjob groups in foreign countries, etc etc., 'maskirovka' if you like, dating back to tsarist times, continued through the communist era and is still a tool in the arsenal they use. No change here.

As for doomsday weapons with no defense against them, they have existed since the 1960'ies or so in the guise of ICBM's.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse, the US is about to ban TikTok. At first I thought they were only going to ban it for government and contractor devices, but it seems now that it will be banned for everyone. I don't use TikTok and probably never will, but how is this bill even constitutionally legal? I understand the concerns about data collection, but the USG seems more concerned about WHO is doing the collecting rather than the collecti…

I vote for Freedom Fence.

The Democracy Drape

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#93
post #15

This interview keeps coming up, and I don't really understand why. It's utterly uninteresting. Bezmenov had an inconsequential role in the KGB. He was not privy to any large-scale details. Bezmenov defected in 1970. After his defection would not be privy to any new information. The interview is from 1984 and not 1985 as the title purports. Ultimately, the claims in this video are categorically false. We can observe t…

> So we must look a little closer at Bezmenov - why would he claim these things, and why does the interview keep resurfacing? Bezmenov isn't even alone in this. Defectors are notoriously unreliable: they tell their host country whatever they want to hear; in this case, because he correctly read the prevailing fears of the Reagan era. He is not the only Soviet defector who told inconsistent or outright false stories.

> Defectors are notoriously unreliable: they tell their host country whatever they want to hear

This is almost word-for-word the same rationalization employed by the people who denied the Cambodian genocide.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#94

Summary of near-14-minute video, since I certainly wished someone else had posted one to help me decide whether to watch: Says the KGB works mainly at ideological subversion of the enemy society, not James Bond stuff. This has 4 stages: - Demoralization. Slow, takes at least a generation to take hold or be reversed. U.S. is 3 generations in, graduates have positions of influence, and now it's mostly done by Americans…

It would certainly explain how "political correctness" a soviet concept made it into the american public consciousness far more than other nations of the world. Edited: Since I'm being downvoted. Political Correctness wasn't really a thing until around the 80's, the same time period as the cold war. It really is acommunist term. The term "political correctness" first appeared in Marxist–Leninist vocabulary following…

I think it would explain even better why everyone tries to shoehorn their least favorite thing about "the other side" into every conversation about manipulation by state actors. Case in point.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#95
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So we must look a little closer at Bezmenov - why would he claim these things, and why does the interview keep resurfacing? Bezmenov isn't even alone in this. Defectors are notoriously unreliable: they tell their host country whatever they want to hear; in this case, because he correctly read the prevailing fears of the Reagan era. He is not the only Soviet defector who told inconsistent or outright false stories.

> Defectors are notoriously unreliable: they tell their host country whatever they want to hear This is almost word-for-word the same rationalization employed by the people who denied the Cambodian genocide.

Maybe, but unfortunately it cannot be used as a strike against it.

The Cambodian genocide happened.

Defectors are notoriously unreliable and many Soviet defectors told falsehoods their host country wanted to believe. (This doesn't mean every defector is unreliable, or even that everything an unreliable defector will say is false -- it just means what it means, that defectors are unreliable as a category.)

Both things are true.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#96
post #82
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure there is. I mean, there's no ideology that promises a better future for the common man, like communism, but ideology there is; Imperialism, glory of the motherland, a peculiarly Russian variant of "Manifest destiny", power of the state, domination of lesser peoples, etc. Fascism, if you like.

What motherland can be offered to the about 30% of non ethnic Russians? Just more of the corrupt same. How would motherland that follows a victory (even what constitutes victory is not defined by the Russian government) differ from the motherland the follows some other outcome?

Sure, it's corrupt shit, no argument there. And really, what's being offered for the other 70% if not pain and suffering, for the make believe goal of glory of the tsar? Sure, they might be treated a lot better than the non ethnic Russians, but it's not paradise for them either.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#97
post #87

It is strange how this interview is currently used. Clearly Bezmenov alleges that the subversion tactics were promoting original left-wing causes since the 1960s: He cites Hippie culture, pilgrimages to India, cultural marxism, etc. Basically everything that Reagan did not like. Now the ruling party are Democrats, and apparently the same interview is used to prove current Russian disinformation, i.e. (alleged) right…

"cultural marxism" is a far right antisemitic conspiracy theory that you're referencing (and as a brand new account with one comment)

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#98
post #32

This ties well into the "three days to Kyiv" expectation at the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russians really did think that Ukraine had been subverted to a degree that it would just roll over and die; that leadership would run away and local resistance would be limited to disorganized pockets that riot police could suppress, but their informants and agents just stole the money and reported what the Kreml…

History sure does rhyme. They did the same thing in 1940, expecting to hold a parade in Finland with their front line troops:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raate_Road

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#99
post #32

This ties well into the "three days to Kyiv" expectation at the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russians really did think that Ukraine had been subverted to a degree that it would just roll over and die; that leadership would run away and local resistance would be limited to disorganized pockets that riot police could suppress, but their informants and agents just stole the money and reported what the Kreml…

Is there a quote of link to the "three days to Kyiv" comment from the Russian Federation?

Yes, they even posted premature victory piece:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60562240

Link to actual russian piece: https://web.archive.org/web/20220226051154/https://ria.ru/20...

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#100
post #84

Yeah, don't put too much stock in this guy's words. Being a defector, flipping 180 degrees and becoming the USSR's biggest and most popular detractor is a no-brainer. But sadly, he could have said that the KGB had pink bunny guns and traveled around on marshmallow clouds and many on the right would lap it up, because it fits a political preconception.

By your logic, we shouldn't ever listen to any defectors, ever. That just doesn't make any sense.

That's like saying, "by your logic, we should never cross the road, because we can't possibly look both ways enough times!"
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