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KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

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Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#81

Post by ikekkdcjkfke »

j0hnyl wrote: post #38
orangepurple wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What career? He died a few years after this interview.

I've done a lot of googling on this guy and either the truth is scrubbed, or I'm landing on soviet propaganda, OR there's not much evidence that he even worked for the KGB. The guy was a journalist and played up this narrative in order to get the attention of the public eye. I'm not saying that everything he said was bullshit. Do nation states at odds actively try to stabilize each other? Of course. But seems to me l…

Uh yeah, just boost topics on tik tok that favours your long term goals, if you control tik tok

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#82

Post by sorokod »

jabl wrote: post #71
sorokod wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no serious ideological backbone to it You are too kind, there is no ideological backbone at all.

Sure there is. I mean, there's no ideology that promises a better future for the common man, like communism, but ideology there is; Imperialism, glory of the motherland, a peculiarly Russian variant of "Manifest destiny", power of the state, domination of lesser peoples, etc. Fascism, if you like.

What motherland can be offered to the about 30% of non ethnic Russians? Just more of the corrupt same.

How would motherland that follows a victory (even what constitutes victory is not defined by the Russian government) differ from the motherland the follows some other outcome?

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#83

Post by sebastianconcpt »

dralley wrote: post #42

Modern Russian propaganda is not all that similar to anything the Soviet Union was interested in. There is no serious ideological backbone to it. It's all about putting out multitudes of conflicting narratives, giving people the "choice" to latch onto the ones they sympathize with most closely, and undermining the very concept of truth, democracy etc. "alternative facts", if you will. Timothy Snyder's description is…

Like "choose your favorite lie"?

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#84

Post by twixfel »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #58

Yeah, don't put too much stock in this guy's words. Being a defector, flipping 180 degrees and becoming the USSR's biggest and most popular detractor is a no-brainer. But sadly, he could have said that the KGB had pink bunny guns and traveled around on marshmallow clouds and many on the right would lap it up, because it fits a political preconception.

By your logic, we shouldn't ever listen to any defectors, ever. That just doesn't make any sense.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#85

Post by sorokod »

Luc wrote: post #66
sorokod wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because "almost every night" I assume he is not mobilized. Why would that be so?

300k mobilized in a population of 143 million, so about 2 per thousand.

A person with moral backbone should not be swayed by mere statistics. The official military along with the PMCs welcome volunteers.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#86

Post by philwelch »

dralley wrote: post #42

Modern Russian propaganda is not all that similar to anything the Soviet Union was interested in. There is no serious ideological backbone to it. It's all about putting out multitudes of conflicting narratives, giving people the "choice" to latch onto the ones they sympathize with most closely, and undermining the very concept of truth, democracy etc. "alternative facts", if you will. Timothy Snyder's description is…

Modern Russia is fundamentally not the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union, at least according to its own mythology, was an instantiation of communist ideology. Modern Russia is not an ideological state in the same way; if it's motivated by anything, it's base nationalism.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#87

Post by nlrtpx »

It is strange how this interview is currently used. Clearly Bezmenov alleges that the subversion tactics were promoting original left-wing causes since the 1960s:

He cites Hippie culture, pilgrimages to India, cultural marxism, etc. Basically everything that Reagan did not like.

Now the ruling party are Democrats, and apparently the same interview is used to prove current Russian disinformation, i.e. (alleged) right wing propaganda.

Meanwhile even the Pentagon currently implements the original (alleged) left wing culture war subversion tactics.

So which is it? Has Russian disinformation pivoted to right wing and the Pentagon is behind the curve? Or is the whole Russian disinformation issue overblown?

Clearly the original subversion items are pushed by the corporate and state woke-washing agenda. So they are apparently good now.

I don't see how right wing propaganda could help Russia, since in important foreign policy matters Democrats and Republicans are fundamentally the same. Evan Trump has armed Ukraine.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#88

Post by twixfel »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #59
orangepurple wrote: post #21

FSB shills are out in full force on HN on this one trying to discredit him with exceptional pilpul and deflection. I grew up in the Eastern Bloc and find his stories plausible. Everything Bezmenov said is true. Watch the entire interview.

Ah yes the classic "everyone who disagrees with me is a shill" (non-)argument. Becoming all to prevalent on HN.

Elsewhere in this thread you say he shouldn't be listened to because he's a defector and would naturally be opposed to the USSR. So you're doing exactly the same thing that you criticise other people for.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#89

Post by watwut »

sorokod wrote: post #54
noduerme wrote: post #2

It's crazy. I know a Russian guy who is exactly like this; I debate with him all the time. Almost every night. About the war. Bluntly invested in winning, regardless of what the system looks like; even admitting that it's a terrible system; using weak arguments for why people need structural dominance, while simultaneously arguing in favor of "the people" - (and using a historical American failings as a way to draw f…

Because "almost every night" I assume he is not mobilized. Why would that be so?

He might simply live in region that mobilized less. Of live abroad. Most of mobilization happen in poor peripheral regions. Moscow and surrounding mobilizes much less.

Re: KGB Defector Yuri Bezmenov 1985 Interview – Idealogical Subversion

#90

Post by kranke155 »

ImHereToVote wrote: post #53
mopsi wrote: post #32

This ties well into the "three days to Kyiv" expectation at the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russians really did think that Ukraine had been subverted to a degree that it would just roll over and die; that leadership would run away and local resistance would be limited to disorganized pockets that riot police could suppress, but their informants and agents just stole the money and reported what the Kreml…

Is there a quote of link to the "three days to Kyiv" comment from the Russian Federation?

There are reports of captured Russian war plans. Im not sure where i read about it but War on the Rocks and Michael Kofman are credible experts.

I dont actually remember the details of the plan but It was something like:

Massive armor convoy sent to Kyiv alongside the rapid capture of Hostomel airport and a then a giant airlift of troops towards a point very much close to Kyiv.

The disdain the commenter is showing for the Russian invasion plan is misplaced however. Most contemporary reports (Post battle of Kyiv) say that the Ukrainians were indeed caught by surprise, that Russian cyberwarfare managed to take out Ukrainian AA allowing for the helicopter Assault at Hostomel and that although Ukraine was sucessful It was a close call and losses were heavy.

Again you have to Dig a bit to avoid the propaganda narratives. The race to Kyiv was actually a Very Very close battle according to what we know now.

The whole 3 days to Kyiv was actually an overstatement. I believe it was more 13 days to capture Kyiv, 2-3 months for the whole country excluding the West which Russia didnt believe It could occupy without heavy resistance. But thats just written out from memory and i might be wrong on the details.

I believe that the Russian expectation was something similar to 2014, where initial Ukrainian resistance just collapsed or was innefective.

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