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Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#231
post #174
post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

I had a similar setup: private office (not a great view, though) and 5-10 minute commute. I would still only work from home. I enjoyed riding my bike to work when the weather was nice, but I’d rather ride to other places instead (better routes). Same goes with walking, I’d rather walk around my neighborhood and nearby parks and lakes than the central business district. I suppose my point is that even if you’re in an…

My last job in a physical office was similar. 10 minute bike ride with a locker room and showers at the office, nice solo cube. It was a great office environment, but the Kabuki hustle to appear busy in an office is extremely stressful.

I think before the pandemic a lot of people were judging performance based on appearances (does this person seem busy, do they have a high profile in meetings). The wider cultural shift toward remote has led to increased emphasis on delivery.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#232
post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

what happens if your company asks you to go to stockholm?

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#233
I think the debate here has grown pretty stale. There’s a lot of arguing about what’s right or wrong, when this isn’t really about right or wrong.

There’s a factual question here about whether remote first companies are more, less, or equally competitive with office first companies. Anecdotes aren’t going to answer that question. Logical arguments aren’t going to answer that question. Passionate rants about pointy haired bosses aren’t going to answer that question.

We just going to need to wait and see the natural experiment play out. Meanwhile, if you are an employer make the best call you can with insufficient data. That’s why you get so much upside. If you’re an employee take the role that’s best for you and your family.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#234
I have been permanently remote for nearly a decade now. I never intend to go back into the office, and this is despite regularly traveling to meet with coworkers/customers and realizing that there is a high degree of value to face-to-face communication and camaraderie building.

For me it comes down to three simple things:

1. Commute

2. Control of my Surroundings

3. Time Management (and as a centerpoint, Food)

To expand on these three points, my biggest challenge is that if I were to take on going back to the office in my current or a future role, I'd be putting myself into a situation where I would be expected to be physically present at exactly the same time every day in an environment which I have no control over and which is not structured to suit my style of working or being, and to do so I would need to restructure how I manage my time and especially how I eat (I follow a strict diet and process) in order to adapt to the expectations and allowances of management and coworkers.

If CEOs want workers back in the office, here's a handful of things they can do that would make this much much more tenable, all of which also generally improve society and reduce operational costs for the company:

1. Move your offices away from city centers and towards the places people actually live, and advocate for those municipalities to provide (good, reasonable, high speed) transit interconnection. Teams should be colocated with one another, but to make this possible you need to entice people to the office by making it not a horrible, stressy process to get there and an enjoyable experience once you are there. A maximum 30 minute commute by transit or car, maximum 1 hour by e-bicycle for the average person assigned to that office. Any more than this, and nobody will deal with that. Let me put this into simple business-speak, your best employee's BATNA to RTO is simply quitting and going to work for your competitors remotely, don't be stupid.

2. Provide knowledge workers with assigned offices that have closable doors. If you want to make it by seniority, that's probably reasonable, but it's absolutely insane to expect a staff engineer or senior level PM that are doing strategy, architecture, and planning work that have outsized business impact (and the salaries to match) to share a hotel desk with 3 other people in an open floorplan office where they are /constantly/ interrupted by noise, movement, and other distractions.

3. Constrain meeting schedules to a 5-6 hour block of time centered on the work-day, make it a company rule to avoid meetings on Fridays and to outright ban meetings that are first-thing in the morning or at the very end of the day. Preferably eliminate as many meetings as possible for ICs, but if you're going to make people attend a meeting, it shouldn't fuck up their morning routine by effectively disallowing the flexibility of 10-15 minutes in their morning or at the end of their day. I know for me, I would quit with no notice before I skip my breakfast ahead of work, there's absolutely no excuse for management to demand someone be physically present first thing in the morning down to the minute for office work.

While working remotely none of these things are a concern, I commute 1 minute from my bedroom to my home office, which is in a separate room specifically structured for my preferred working environment, and I can eat while I'm working which means I've never had to skip any of the meal times in my diet in order to meet some arbitrary and unnecessary time expectation. When I do travel to the office, I get less "work" that doesn't involve meeting people face to face done, although I'm usually the first or second person to arrive at the office so have at least some quiet time (and despite my comments above, I am basically never late, I just don't like the anxiety that comes with the expectations), this difference in productivity is pretty much entirely down to surroundings. Open Floor Plan offices are a mistake, and companies don't seem to care and just double-down on it.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#235

I could be convinced to commute to a satellite office that's not affected by rush hour traffic. There's a lot of real estate available in the burbs. These don't really exist though, and their expense far outweighs their benefits. The problem is that companies expect employees to be mobile when they are not. It's called putting down roots for a reason. Pulling kids out of school, buying a new house is very disruptive.…

I work for a non profit. After two years or letting everyone at home, this month they're forcing people to come to office at least twice a week. Not only that, anyone going to work has to book a desk in advance, otherwise they'll be sitting on the floor with their computer on their laps.

This makes no difference to me personally, as I am a thousand miles away in another state, so I lucked out. I am still working from home.

None of this makes any sense whatsoever. I am totally expecting people to leave, just because they are forced to commute.

This is one of the nicer places I have worked. I dread to image what it would be like, in some of the shittier jobs I have had.

In my opinion, anyone who can work from home should do so. It frees up the traffic, makes office space more affordable for those businesses who do need space (dentist, restaurant etc) and in general win-win for everyone. All this talk of making "human connections" at work is just bullshit. Offices are just noisy, leads to office politics and meaningless meetings, cubicles are shitty, open office plans are shittier...

Either that, or make sensible but much, much harder changes to housing, transporation etc. Since nobody seems ready to take on that work, the easier solution is to just let people work from home. It won't solve all problems, but it is a good start

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#236
post #183
post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

You have an 'ideal' office (if there were such a thing) though, it's not really the comparison anyone means, or what's generally realistic. Your sort of office is the sort of thing that for most people is more attainable if they do work remotely, and then rent a space near home, or build/convert a shed/garage/outbuilding. Your happiness working from the office is also quite tied to your employer, I'd assume (I don't…

Everyone renting a place near them (or using a dedicated space in their home if they choose) misses out on “gathering around a whiteboard is fantastic and casual conversations over coffee can really help smooth over accidental communication gaps that exist in every organisation.”

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#237

I could be convinced to commute to a satellite office that's not affected by rush hour traffic. There's a lot of real estate available in the burbs. These don't really exist though, and their expense far outweighs their benefits. The problem is that companies expect employees to be mobile when they are not. It's called putting down roots for a reason. Pulling kids out of school, buying a new house is very disruptive.…

Barring a change in city costs. Engineers expected to commute into the office will demand progressively higher rates. I’m not working for a billion+ profit firm for less than it costs to live in my area.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#238
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RSI? Would like to hear more about your home set-up

Yep. So I've been working for about fifteen years, had it from the start, but it just keep on getting worse. So now have migrated to a no keyboard solution, and am working on a no mouse solution. My setup, software: - talon ( https://talonvoice.com/ ), basing my configuration on the standard repo ( https://github.com/knausj85/knausj_talon/ ), with some minor modifications. This is how I navigate my whole computer, an…

Got any tips for a 30 year old who wants to prevent needing all this in the future? Wrist strength is something I never think about, but I'm sure it could sneak up on me one day.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#239
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can walk to a train station in 5 minutes, then socialized with your train friends for half an hour to 45 minutes or read a book. Or if you commute by walking, cycling and running and it is considered your daily physical activity, it is fine. If you spend your time running to a bus stop, not being able to do anything in the bus because it is crowded and bouncy, then have to catch a train, that is also full then…

Who the hell has train friends?

Lots of people I know who live in the north of England and Scotland get to know the people they end up commuting with, but this seems much less common in the south of England. I think conversation with strangers on the train is also much more common up north.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#240

I spent the pandemic working all kinds of hours, and now management wants people back in the office. It does feel like my effort is not valued, but an ex colleague once said something really interesting: if you are sacrificing yourself to compensate for your company's shortcomings, they will never get fixed. So if something has to be deployed to production, it now has to be done during normal working hours. I'm not g…

Why would you take your work laptop home if you're not allowed to work from home?
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