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Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#181
post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

> My meandering point is that: everyone has different life situations Yes, so it's not about preferences, it's not about the pros and cons, it's about not forcing people for needless suffering. Forcing people who want or need (professionally or personally) to work with other people at home is absurd, and forcing people who provide better work at home (for jobs were it makes no difference to be in office) to commute a…

The consistent response I have gotten from managers is that more or less - people fake work sitting in their homes or work multiple jobs, and we collaborate better when we are sitting in an office. They use this as a force function to pull employees back into the office.

I call BS on all of these. Employees faking work - your hiring problem. Employees working multiple jobs - again your problem, keep them occupied with meaningful work, if not bring in legality to protect your IP or whatever. AFAIK no one working multiple jobs are revealing IPs.

In person collaboration - There may be some truth to this. High profile decisions are best taken in person, that being said during covid almost all decisions were done on Zoom not just for a week or so but for 2 years. Isn't that proof enough that even government level decisions can be done on Zoom ?

Design discussions are best done on Miro/Google docs than on the whiteboard. Multiple people can collaborate efficiently on Miro, especially with an iPad. Not only this, every voice is heard instead of just 2-3 folks standing at a whiteboard and driving discussions.

So many tools that make even pair programming or production debugging a breeze.

I can pretty much negate every argument that mandates in person office presence.

What I really vouch for is in person collaboration events once or twice a month where everyone comes together for a couple of days and hash out key issues and have a totally unstructured time for collaboration.

And of course, have an office for those who want to come in to collaborate. Not everyone has a spacious home, people like to hang out with co-workers during lunch etc. However make it mandatory that all group meetings will be done on zoom, in order to provide equal participation opportunity to remote workers. These hybrid meetings with a few people in a room and a few on zoom are a total disaster.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#183
post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

You have an 'ideal' office (if there were such a thing) though, it's not really the comparison anyone means, or what's generally realistic.

Your sort of office is the sort of thing that for most people is more attainable if they do work remotely, and then rent a space near home, or build/convert a shed/garage/outbuilding.

Your happiness working from the office is also quite tied to your employer, I'd assume (I don't know Sweden or what's normal though), which is obviously either limiting or means you might find yourself back in the 'will only work remotely' camp when looking for a new job.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it comes down to incentives. Traditionally the economic benefit of children was that they would basically work for you, including supporting you into old age. This made the enormous investment a lot more worthwhile. Also the childcare obligations were much less (a 12 year old could be pretty much self sufficient by working). With pensions, no child labour, etc, the trade-off is not like that any more in econo…

Who’s getting pensions these days? I doubt anyone under 50 right now will have much of a retirement to look forward to.

Military, police, postal service, and some state jobs too (US).

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#185
My workplace requires us to come in a few days a week. I don't like it, but I don't dislike it enough to quit.

I don't get value out of being in the office. I'm an introvert. I come in, dump my laptop on the table in the dull open space office, put my noise cancelling headphones on, then do the same exact thing I do at home. I do the watercooler banter on Slack.

My coworkers are fine with remote work. My manager outright admits that he would have let the team stay remote if he wasn't getting prodded by HR, who are of course enforcing corporate's diktat.

And that brings us to the problem.

Corporate.

Corporate wants everyone back in the office and they're insane about it.

Every unoccupied screen now has some lines about how cool being back in the office is.

Every company-wide meeting has a 10 minute speech about how we should finally get back together and collaborate.

There is total disregard for people's actual circumstances.

They keep telling us this policy is for our own good, that we can work better this way, but a FAQ document had a question on it about those who collaborate with people in other regions and even with all the HR-speak flowery words the answer basically was: we don't care, deal with it and come to the office.

An executive at a corporate-wide meeting outright BRAGGED about being sick with COVID and lying about it so he could attend a company function in person at the height of the pandemic.

The obsession is genuinely uncomfortable at this point.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#186
post #68

We had this discussion. I wanted the same "luxuries" as at home: - 200 sqf dedicated room with my own toilet, shower and kitchenet - Basic lab equipment: 4 tables, 10 screens, 6 computers... Nothing crazy, under $20k total - Soundproofing, video conferencing equipment, 1Gbps uplink - Compensation for time and expenses I would spend on commute - Window with a nice view It did not go down very well.

You knew it wouldn’t when you asked for that though lol.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#187
post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

I actually like the office and don’t like working from home. It’s the commute that makes me work remotely.

I start my shower 15 minutes before work and am online and productive. Going into the office adds on at least an hour and all the intangibles with it (gas, drycleaning, food, etc).

And childcare is so possible with remote work and much more difficult with commuting.

If I could teleport instantaneously to my office I would choose it in a heartbeat.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#188
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My meandering point is that: everyone has different life situations Yes, so it's not about preferences, it's not about the pros and cons, it's about not forcing people for needless suffering. Forcing people who want or need (professionally or personally) to work with other people at home is absurd, and forcing people who provide better work at home (for jobs were it makes no difference to be in office) to commute a…

Sure. So some people will work for remote-first companies and some people will for for office-first companies. There's no one-size-fits all and different companies will work with different models. You're not forced to work at any particular company and no company should be expected to be the right place for all profiles. (Within that the employer of course does have responsibilities to accommodate employee differenti…

> There's no one-size-fits all and different companies will work with different models. You're not forced to work at any particular company and no company should be expected to be the right place for all profiles.

I think that certain things being "normalized" industry wide has better outcomes, such as someone with a bad commute being able to speak up about working remotely could get rid of that, because remote work is considered commonplace now. Or maybe someone who has a busy home life could be able to spend more time in the office with reserved seating or get a coworking space funded.

Remote work wasn't always "normal" and many didn't even see it as viable if not for the pandemic. Some are mandating returns to the office and a part of that extends to the shaping of the public perception of remote work, along exaggerated statements like "remote workers are worse at collaboration and don't even have the discipline to get dressed properly". While I don't follow Joshua Fluke, I think he had a few videos about similar statements on his YouTube channel a year or two back - sometimes outright misrepresentations of remote work, made to fit a particular perspective.

But as long as people don't attempt to misrepresent what remote/in-office work is like, I think it's perfectly fine for organizations to structure themselves around whatever works for them. I just figured I'd mention the public perception aspect of it all, because sometimes stigma is harmful, e.g. how discussing one's compensation being "taboo" in some places can make one's perception of how much a certain kind of work is valued at inaccurate.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key point is that someone else is watching the baby while you work. WFH is indeed wonderful for parents and families, but if you try to do it without childcare, you're not going to be working much.

If you don't have childcare, you can't go to the office at all though.

If you do not have childcare you can not work... from home or otherwise

and trust me your co-workers will notice and be annoyed by having to pick up the slack

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