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Waiting for Brando: A disastrous 1961 film production of the Iliad

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Re: Waiting for Brando: A disastrous 1961 film production of the Iliad

#41

Post by watwut »

throw0101c wrote: post #15
cammikebrown wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know several one percenters who say they’re not wealthy. They always know someone richer than them, so they can’t possibly be that rich.

> So far I have tried to quantify what income level you need to be rich. I’ve tried to give you numbers that you could use to compare yourself to other people. However, in my many years of writing about money, I’ve come to realize something—being rich is more than a number. Being rich is a feeling. > Because even if the numbers say that you are doing well, if you don’t feel rich, then it doesn’t matter. You could be…

> You could be making $10M a year, but if you feel like you need to make $20M, then you will feel poorer than someone making $100,000 who only feels like they need to make $50,000.

Yeah, but there is still very material difference between these two people. The difference is not just the feeling in the moment. It is difference in "if I get sick, how much healthcare I can pay" or "if I get into legal trouble, can I afford justice or layer" ... and either of those situations will change their feelings quickly.

Re: Waiting for Brando: A disastrous 1961 film production of the Iliad

#42

Post by watwut »

acabal wrote: post #28
floren wrote: post #5

> I realized that though we had come to Cornell from Brooklyn, and from fairly similar Jewish middle-class backgrounds > Her father, who owned a travel agency, among many other companies, provided us with first-class tickets to Athens on a KLM “sleeper” flight. It's true what they say, everybody wants to think of themselves as middle-class

Historically, that is what it meant to be middle class. Before there was an established middle class, there was only the upper class - aristocracy who inherited wealth and land - and the poor. You might find a rich merchant from time to time but they were the exception and not a class. Once the industrial revolution kicked in, it became possible for a large amount of people to amass wealth without having inherited it…

Medieval times had middle class too. So did usa during civil war. Middle class is not something that formed up in 20th century first time.

Re: Waiting for Brando: A disastrous 1961 film production of the Iliad

#43

Post by watwut »

actionfromafar wrote: post #14
circlefull wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on. The author never harassed her caused any harm or did anything she refused. He was a suitor and had a crush. Stalker is a word better used more carefully in my opinion, for bad people. Not hopeless romantics perusing hopeless relationships.

While this is true , that's also exactly how stalkers present themselves.

Not really? Stalking actions require you to invade privacy or continuing contact when it was unwanted. Stalking is an actual thing.

Re: Waiting for Brando: A disastrous 1961 film production of the Iliad

#44

Post by throwawaylinux »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #35
throwawaylinux wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did decide that, pursuing someone with tenacity doesn't mean there is no chance, you just decided it. In any case it really is immaterial to whether or not he's a stalker anyway. Even if he did believe he had little or no chance, even if he had little or no chance, that still doesn't mean he can't try. There does not have to be any evidence his interest was reciprocated. It doesn't matter that he tried to make a…

You are conflating two things: A general observation I made that If there is no hope she will ever say "yes", he knows that and pursues her anyway, he is a stalker, not a hopeless romantic. and my original statement that the author sounds like borderline a stalker . At no point did I assert definitively that the author was clearly a stalker. If it looks that way to you, that's perhaps because this is an overwhelmingl…

> A general observation I made that If there is no hope she will ever say "yes", he knows that and pursues her anyway, he is a stalker, not a hopeless romantic. and my original statement that the author sounds like borderline a stalker.

That is what I am addressing, whether or not they sound like a stalker based on the article.

> At no point did I assert definitively that the author was clearly a stalker. If it looks that way to you, that's perhaps because this is an overwhelmingly male forum and I am getting a lot of replies essentially fairly strongly shooting me down and I happen to be choosing to reply to many of those replies to me.

I'm not arguing that you would have a tough time proving it beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal court. I'm saying that wouldn't even be a consideration. It would never get to trial because there would not eve nbe probable cause. It's not stalking.

Unless there was anywhere that says or suggests she asked him to leave her alone and he did not, or that he secretly followed or observed her, sent messages or tampered with her property, was violent or threatening around her, or anything of that nature. That might change things. Man going to great lengths to impress woman isn't though.

> That's kind of an unfortunate numbers game on HN and it's sometimes a no-win situation if a woman chooses to make a remark on an issue of this sort and it happens to get a lot of push back.

Whether or not that's true does not change that this is not stalking though.

> At this point, you are implying that I am not a "reasonable person" and you are doubling down on insisting I did things that I never did. That's veering into territory that the guidelines suggest should be avoided and I am stepping away from this conversation.

I do not imply that. I am saying I don't think would meet the legal "reasonable person" test, but there are lots of ways that we could disagree other than simply you being unreasonable. Mistaken in other ways in understanding of the situation, or the statute or the law, for example. Not only that if a person does not match legal reasonable person test in all their feelings on everything that doesn't make them an unreasonable person, IMO.

Re: Waiting for Brando: A disastrous 1961 film production of the Iliad

#45

Post by actionfromafar »

watwut wrote: post #43
actionfromafar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is true , that's also exactly how stalkers present themselves.

Not really? Stalking actions require you to invade privacy or continuing contact when it was unwanted. Stalking is an actual thing.

Are you arguing stalkers present themselves as "hi, I invade privacy and continue contact when unwanted"?

Re: Waiting for Brando: A disastrous 1961 film production of the Iliad

#46

Post by watwut »

actionfromafar wrote: post #45
watwut wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really? Stalking actions require you to invade privacy or continuing contact when it was unwanted. Stalking is an actual thing.

Are you arguing stalkers present themselves as "hi, I invade privacy and continue contact when unwanted"?

I am saying this article is not how stalkers represent themselves. I am saying that article does not contain stalking actions either.

Re: Waiting for Brando: A disastrous 1961 film production of the Iliad

#48

Post by Maursault »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #22
Maursault wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't RTFA, but it is clear neither you nor OP have any idea what stalking is. While it does mean "to approach stealthily," which implies surveilling and following in the context of predator and prey, in the social and criminal sense stalking has a specific meaning which is in the simplest sense to threaten . Any indication in the article that the author had an intent of harassment and intimidation, or threatened a…

We do not have Susan Brockman's side of this story. We do not know if the contact was deemed unwanted nor if she felt threatened, etc. This was the 1950s and 60s. Women with any career ambition put up with a lot more sexist BS and sexual BS than they typically do today. She may have felt this was an opportunity she could not afford to pass up.

Right, so we must presume his behavior is criminal until he is proven innocent.

Re: Waiting for Brando: A disastrous 1961 film production of the Iliad

#49

Post by bequanna »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #22
Maursault wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't RTFA, but it is clear neither you nor OP have any idea what stalking is. While it does mean "to approach stealthily," which implies surveilling and following in the context of predator and prey, in the social and criminal sense stalking has a specific meaning which is in the simplest sense to threaten . Any indication in the article that the author had an intent of harassment and intimidation, or threatened a…

We do not have Susan Brockman's side of this story. We do not know if the contact was deemed unwanted nor if she felt threatened, etc. This was the 1950s and 60s. Women with any career ambition put up with a lot more sexist BS and sexual BS than they typically do today. She may have felt this was an opportunity she could not afford to pass up.

Ridiculous.

Why are you pushing this dreamed up narrative so hard without a single piece of evidence?

Do you have personal knowledge of something that isn’t included in this story?

Re: Waiting for Brando: A disastrous 1961 film production of the Iliad

#50

Post by tunesmith »

watwut wrote: post #42
acabal wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, that is what it meant to be middle class. Before there was an established middle class, there was only the upper class - aristocracy who inherited wealth and land - and the poor. You might find a rich merchant from time to time but they were the exception and not a class. Once the industrial revolution kicked in, it became possible for a large amount of people to amass wealth without having inherited it…

Medieval times had middle class too. So did usa during civil war. Middle class is not something that formed up in 20th century first time.

An illustrative question is whether the working class is the middle class. I think that's less true today in the US than it was in years past.
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