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The Quest for Netflix on Asahi Linux

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Re: The Quest for Netflix on Asahi Linux

#241

Post by jenadine »

botanical wrote: post #230
vel0city wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not understanding how lossy compression encoders work. Try recompressing a JPEG a few dozen times. Or take an MP3 and export it from Audacity, open the export, export as MP3 again a dozen times and see what it sounds like. All those artifacts keep getting amplified every time you re-encode until it's practically just the artifacts. Every time you render and recompress you're losing information, it's lossy comp…

But JPEG purposely discards information to save space. A digital stream is copied directly, only a codec would subject it losing information

But if you want to share it or store it, it is not practical to keep the raw data. You will have to re-encode.

Re: The Quest for Netflix on Asahi Linux

#242

Post by Mindwipe »

reisse wrote: post #63

The mere existence of Widevine is a mystery for me. How sensible for Netflix is to invest into DRM at all? It's not a gamedev situation, where DRM lasts long enough to make impact on initial sales. Pirated Netflix shows appear on the torrents same day, and unless they have full-stack protection from the decoder to the screen, not much can be done. They seem to make user experience worse for nothing.

>It's not a gamedev situation, where DRM lasts long enough to make impact on initial sales. Pirated Netflix shows appear on the torrents

This hasn't been consistently true for a while. Stranger Things season 4 did not appear in high resolutions online for a month after release.

Re: The Quest for Netflix on Asahi Linux

#243

Post by rfoo »

coldtea wrote: post #128
rfoo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people say glibc, they really mean ld.so + libc.so + libm.so + nss + ... And no, glibc really only work with its own dynamic loader (ld.so), and it has to be with same version.

Again, what prevents you from ALSO having all those? You just need to point to them and run some programs that require them with those...

There can be only one ld.so in each process.

Widevine is a plugin-like .so meant to be loaded into Chrome/Chromium. Because it uses glibc, the entire process hosting it must use glibc. So, what prevents me from ALSO HAVING GLIBC CHROMIUM instead of musl Chromium? Nothing, but I hope you get that it propagates further and it's a horrible idea to just glibc everything on Alpine.

Re: The Quest for Netflix on Asahi Linux

#244

Post by Hackbraten »

steve1977 wrote: post #226
vel0city wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not understanding how lossy compression encoders work. Try recompressing a JPEG a few dozen times. Or take an MP3 and export it from Audacity, open the export, export as MP3 again a dozen times and see what it sounds like. All those artifacts keep getting amplified every time you re-encode until it's practically just the artifacts. Every time you render and recompress you're losing information, it's lossy comp…

But the loss happens during re-encoding, not during capture.

In practice, that difference doesn’t really matter because almost no one is going to store their captured, already-lossy material in a lossless format.

Re: The Quest for Netflix on Asahi Linux

#245

Post by RuggedPineapple »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #229
_a9 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even private anymore. Anyone can easily find tools on GitHub or other sites[0] that can download widevine'd content. It's easy to find L3 keys on GitHub too. There are public sites[1] that get the decryption keys but using their own keys on the backend if you cant find keys or don't know how to dump the keys. There is an all-in-one tool[2] that lets anyone with 0 knowledge of DRM to dump content from practic…

The all-in-one tool only decrypts Widevine L3, which is the lowest security Widevine protocol according to TFA. 4k content is only available with Widevine L1. The others don't say which level they support, but I assume it's the same.

That tool says it does for 4k for HBO Max. All the other platforms (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Disney+) are 720 or 1080 though. Wonder whats going on there.

Re: The Quest for Netflix on Asahi Linux

#246

Post by mike_hearn »

Gigachad wrote: post #121
freeplay wrote: post #115

Widevine has been privately cracked/bypassed. The method hasn't been made public as it would obviously get patched rather quickly (if it even can be patched). That's why Netflix content is available almost immediately on any decent tracker. The quality would not look nearly as good if it was grabbed using a capture card. Like others have mentioned, it's security theater for the content owners who most likely require…

This is why audio and video drm is so useless. All the cracking teams have their own methods which they don’t need to publish. Unlike video game drm where the cracks have to be published with the game.

It's actually a bit dangerous for ripping groups to do that if they're in countries friendly to western interests, because the media companies can initiate a traitor tracing protocol to figure out where the leaks are coming from and then initiate prosecutions. Traitor tracing algorithms are well known in the literature and some are undetectable.

When this game was playing out with BluRay, it wasn't possible for the media groups to directly attack the ripper makers because the primary developers were in Antigua which had a WTO ruling against the USA allowing Antiguans to ignore US intellectual property rights. I forget the political background. Later I think someone in China started doing it too. The point is though, that the tech converted (for a time) the problem from one of intractable scale to one of "if we get these two companies then the issue disappears because they're the only ones who have the knowledge". That opens up all sorts of new strategies for the media companies to pursue. They may not work, but, the situation is definitely not the same as before.

BTW video game cracks don't have to be published with the game. They can just publish the patches to the game files without releasing any tools they created to make those patches.

Re: The Quest for Netflix on Asahi Linux

#247

Post by mike_hearn »

Gigachad wrote: post #181
MBCook wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> …would result in DRM being less popular because it caused too much friction for users. I agree. But that wouldn’t lead to more content freely available. It would lead to more content being locked in apps and unavailable in the browser. Do you think they would’ve made an app for Linux? I don’t. The dream that all content be available DRM free isn’t happening any time soon. Rights holders clearly don’t want it and I…

I don’t think Spotify web would have DRM if it required manually installing crap like silverlight. Music went drm free because it was inconvenient, and then when the drm was refined a bit, it’s all locked up so the web ui doesn’t work on Asahi.

Because users are so famously reluctant to download apps? Apple would like a word with you ;)

It's mostly devs who obsess over the downloading and running of programs as if it's a great torment. Users don't care much. They're happy to go grab things from app stores or even just download and run them. Notch was able to buy a massive mansion in Beverly Hills on the back of people downloading and running his Java desktop app.

Re: The Quest for Netflix on Asahi Linux

#248

Post by porbelm »

RuggedPineapple wrote: post #245
lern_too_spel wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The all-in-one tool only decrypts Widevine L3, which is the lowest security Widevine protocol according to TFA. 4k content is only available with Widevine L1. The others don't say which level they support, but I assume it's the same.

That tool says it does for 4k for HBO Max. All the other platforms (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Disney+) are 720 or 1080 though. Wonder whats going on there.

Perhaps HBO Max only uses L3 for all content then?

Re: The Quest for Netflix on Asahi Linux

#249

Post by porbelm »

Zardoz84 wrote: post #238
rowanG077 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a capture card look any worse? Isn't it capturing lossless video output? Just because of the re-encode?

I think it's both things. Netflix, and other platforms, don't send lossless streams to you. Even at 4k. Plus, you are re-encoding it. Its like doing a VHS copy from another VHS, or creating a new JPEG image from another. Always there is a loss of quality.

Well a 1080p stream at 30 fps would be 1,5 Gbit/s -- a little outside the spec of most people's internet tubes. And 4K UHD at 30 fps would be around 5 or 6 gigabit.

It helps to capture the Netflix stream uncompressed to remove the extra compression step you'd otherwise get at capture time, and modern encoders are pretty good, I don't think most people would notice on a laptop screen.

On a 40+ inch 4K TV though, it can be quite noticeable

Re: The Quest for Netflix on Asahi Linux

#250

Post by mike_hearn »

loeg wrote: post #110
dublinben wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that there is plenty of directly stream-ripped content out there, presumably using cracks of various levels of Widevine. The makers of these tools and the groups using them tend to keep quiet about the details of the precise exploits they're using, for obvious reasons. Ultimately, there's no shortage of DRM-free 4K content, whether from streaming services or Blu-Ray, since there's always a weak point in…

Yeah. With blurays, you can always extract the device key out of some Bluray player. It's an extremely poor user experience for bluray consumers to have their devices stop working for new movies, so my impression is these keys aren't blacklisted all that quickly. For the streaming sites, I have no idea. But, yeah, the cleartext bits need to get in front of the user eventually.

BluRay has two security systems. One is based on key revocation (AACS) and one is based on embedding programs written by companies contracted by the movie studios which do dynamic detection of rippers. AACS failed almost immediately because indeed, keys leaked faster than they could be revoked. BD+ proved much harder, at least in the early years. But it was only ever designed to last about 10 years according even to the sales pitch of the designers and it's older than that now, so I wouldn't expect it to be all that effective anymore especially since Intel pulled SGX from their client chips.
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