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Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

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Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#251

Post by jefftk »

yamtaddle wrote: post #188
jefftk wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a new low. Like many things people criticize Amazon for "starting", this has a long history in retail. When you walk into a store and see an attractive display at the end of an aisle full of products from one brand, that is a "end cap" and is something that brand paid for.

Ads on the store search is more like you ask a clerk to help you find one thing and they show you three other things first.

The clerk can preferentially show you higher margin products that might be what you're looking for, and while a grocery store wouldn't bother other retail (ex: electronics, cars) will.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#252

Post by throwawaya2337 »

mabbo wrote: post #205

I keep trying to explain to people: they aren't "ads" they are "pay for customers to ever see your product". It's an extortion ring, basically. Just like nobody ever opens page 2 of Google search, people rarely scroll down very far on Amazon's product search page. These "ads" just put the highest bidders' products at the top-K spots (and K keeps increasing) so that customers aren't see the most relevant products, jus…

The sentiment of it being an extortion ring is correct. However, it's not as simple as placing the highest bidders' product at the top-K spots, because it's not a true auction system; not anywhere close. Amazon runs an ML algo that attempts to determine the actual cost benefit of serving an ad, and does everything in its power to maximize the value of the underlying ecosystem. It applies weights to warehousing fees, shipping fees, CVR, CTR, referral fees, customer retention & satisfaction, LCV, LSV, loan interest, etc. It's not that relevance isn't a focus, but the considerations are complex and somewhat reliant on sellers' data inputs.

You could bid $100 on your own brand KWs and get charged $0.37/click while a competitor in the adjacent slot will get charged $25. You could bid $100 on a competitor's brand KW and never get an impression because the algo has determined your product is a complete waste of that virtual shelf space.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#253

Post by ctvo »

worik wrote: post #225
ctvo wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love when we don't acknowledge the suggestion is the pain point. I can't get to work because I lack access to transportation. Crazy idea buy a car! Geez, why didn't I think of that? Finding a reputable online retailer, with customer service, competitive pricing, and fast delivery that has your product in stock is hard . Managing a list of niche retailers that meet those requirements, one for electronics, one for ho…

> Finding a reputable online retailer, with customer service, competitive pricing, and fast delivery that has your product in stock is hard Maybe five years ago. Not now

List your preferred retailers for the various product categories that meet the requirements in the comment you quoted.

No need to cover Canada, the EU, and other regions that Amazon supports. US only is fine.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#254

Post by Zetice »

freejazz wrote: post #248
Zetice wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those facts do that, as Walmart offers everything you listed. I just happen to live in AR and know a number of people who work on the relevant teams that do each of these things at Walmart, and given Walmart.com's growth in the last year, Amazon is far from the only company able to provide these services profitably. Is Amazon a competitor? Yes. Do they have a monopoly ? Heck no.

Oh wow, you conveniently know the exact people doing those exact things at Walmart but instead first made up that I expressed a negative sentiment. Yeah, okay.

Huh, what does that have to do with whether or not Amazon has a monopoly? I think at this point it’s clear they do not, you just didn’t have the info about the industry you were commenting on.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#255

Post by 88913527 »

bradleyjg wrote: post #217
mabbo wrote: post #205

I keep trying to explain to people: they aren't "ads" they are "pay for customers to ever see your product". It's an extortion ring, basically. Just like nobody ever opens page 2 of Google search, people rarely scroll down very far on Amazon's product search page. These "ads" just put the highest bidders' products at the top-K spots (and K keeps increasing) so that customers aren't see the most relevant products, jus…

I’ve reduced my usage of Amazon significantly since they made it near impossible to filter out 3rd party sellers. I have no interest in eBay 2.0.

It's intriguing how many marketplaces have adopted this model. There must be some short-term optimization occurring.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#256

Post by hyperdimension »

cronix wrote: post #240
weberer wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Billboards >I guess I sometimes see those in US TV shows ;) Lucky. In Helsinki they're in every metro station, every bus stop, and sometimes just in random spots along busy streets. Oh, and every metro car has screens playing video ads.

In the states, we now have them built into gas station pumps. So any time you get gas you have video ads blasting at you with some crappy loudspeaker.

I don't really consider this a solution since I'm opposed to ads creeping into everything on principle, but try hitting the first or second button from the top on the right side. That mutes them around 80% of the time in my experience.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#257

Post by dpkirchner »

88913527 wrote: post #255
bradleyjg wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve reduced my usage of Amazon significantly since they made it near impossible to filter out 3rd party sellers. I have no interest in eBay 2.0.

It's intriguing how many marketplaces have adopted this model. There must be some short-term optimization occurring.

It's an easy way for them to become "the everything store" without risking anything but their brand (and in Amazon's case warehouse capacity).

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#258

Post by JohnFen »

Drblessing wrote: post #215
stephenitis wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oddly defensive of Amazon here. I think the criticism is warranted given that Amazon's core ecommerce product is a shadow of it's former self.

"It's an extortion ring... Now it's reaping its reward by selling [customer trust] off wholesale." I think this is hyperbolic. In my experience, they continue to deliver great products at reasonable prices, especially given inflation. I can regularly find the same products cheaper on Amazon than local brick and mortar retailers, as well as online Walmart and other online venues. If this is selling off my trust, they…

My experience with Amazon is that the quality of their offerings and service have fallen significantly over the years, to the point where there is no longer any reason for me to use them.

So I don't.

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#259

Post by worik »

ctvo wrote: post #253
worik wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finding a reputable online retailer, with customer service, competitive pricing, and fast delivery that has your product in stock is hard Maybe five years ago. Not now

List your preferred retailers for the various product categories that meet the requirements in the comment you quoted. No need to cover Canada, the EU, and other regions that Amazon supports. US only is fine.

I'm in a different country

Every shop I used to shop at has an e-commerce presence

Some are just getting used to it, but most are great

Re: Retail, search and Amazon’s $40B ‘advertising’ business

#260

Post by corbulo »

Drblessing wrote: post #215
stephenitis wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oddly defensive of Amazon here. I think the criticism is warranted given that Amazon's core ecommerce product is a shadow of it's former self.

"It's an extortion ring... Now it's reaping its reward by selling [customer trust] off wholesale." I think this is hyperbolic. In my experience, they continue to deliver great products at reasonable prices, especially given inflation. I can regularly find the same products cheaper on Amazon than local brick and mortar retailers, as well as online Walmart and other online venues. If this is selling off my trust, they…

>I can regularly find the same products cheaper on Amazon than local brick and mortar retailers, as well as online Walmart and other online venues.

Well duh, the Chinese gov subsidizes their products to crush American businesses. Amazon is apathetic because of exactly what you say. Price is all that matters.

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