In the US at least, the original retirement age, set in 1935, was 65. The average life expectancy was 60. Today in the US it's 77.8. In France, it's 82. As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with more people who are purely consumers, and contribute nothing to the system. In a post-scarcity world, this would not be a problem, but currently with the oldest generations own…
> As populations age into a higher percentage of retirees, the system is forced to cope with a more people who are purely consumers, but contribute nothing to the system. Sort of off topic, but I do agree that the older generations in the western world, particularly the american baby boomers, act sociopathic as a group. There is a good book about this: A generation of sociopaths. [1] Sad to watch an entire generation…
French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
331–340 of 835 posts
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#332I have to say, the people in France really know how to live! Here in the US, people do not give a sh**. Already benefits have been reduced to the point were you cannot live on Social Security unless you pitch a tent next to a dumpster outside of a restaurant. Not only that, every year the retirement age is increased. For people born after 1960 full retirement is 67. The GOP in congress is trying to raise it to 70. Do…
> Here in the US, people do not give a sh*. Already benefits have been reduced to the point were you cannot live on Social Security unless you pitch a tent next to a dumpster outside of a restaurant. This is a problem with Congress not managing the Social Security system properly over the last 85 years. > Not only that, every year the retirement age is increased. For people born after 1960 full retirement is 67. The…
Correct, but most of this issue is because on Party has been trying to eliminate it since its inception.
>demographics is either going to result in a 25% reduction in benefits that the SSA can pay out or result in a high tax burden on workers
Right now the Tax cap is 160,200, Congress should eliminate that tax cap, then there will be plenty of $. That cap is about equal to 9300 in 1938. Lots of people in Mang. makes well over that amount.
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#333My grandfather a few years back passed a rather profound point in his life - he had been retired so long that he officially spent less of his life not working than working (despite entering the workforce at 15). And it's not lost on me I am essentially doing double work: it's not enough for me to generate enough economic value for myself, society kind of depends on me to generate enough surplus value to cover an enti…
How old is your grandfather? Gotta be 100+ correct? I don't think 99.99% of people will experience having worked less years than worked as they age.
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
the system IS sustained. the main white collar one even generates profits. increase the salaries that will increase money being sent to retirement funds and it won’t be a problem anymore. france income per capita has been the same for the past 20 years. they are stealing our wages to make us slaves and they blame us for not working enough. christine lagarde pushed for blocking wage rise in the EU, european commission…
> and in a globalised world where most of the goods are made in countries where salaries are rising as well as inflation, blocking our wages is only sending us to the third world . Just throwing this out here, but in a globalized world, by what mechanism would one expect Europeans and Americans will be able to enjoy a greater standard of living than people in, say, Asia? Are they somehow smarter? More productive? In…
When I was in morocco 10 years ago one of the buckles for my motorcycle pants suspenders broke. I was able to get a local leather worker to create a pattern from the broken piece, craft the replacement, and integrate it into my suspenders overnight for under 5 USD. This was arranged by the hotel I was staying at, and wasn’t some special inside knowledge on my part.
The mass manufactured replacement were more than 10x that cost, and made of lower quality materials.
Morocco is not a rich country, but a lot of the world is even less wealthy.
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#335These stats are for the U.S., but one thing that usually get ignored in these retirement discussions is just how massively life expectancy depends on income level and sex: http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/health/ Raising the retirement pension age screws over the poor, especially poor men. Perhaps retirement age should be tied to income/wealth somehow ... and maybe even sex (as controversial as I imagine that w…
I figured the one upside of retirement was it was a baseline for the poor. If it screws them over too I think it should just be eliminated all together and return the tax to the worker to save/invest on their own.
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#336The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…
Every single pension system has the working population pay for the retirees. Where do you think the money comes from? Thin air? Any increase in the value of pension funds (for example) is coming from the workers.
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#337The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#338Here in the Netherlands, we pride ourselves on our "polder model", a trinity of government, employers and unions that come to a consensus, hence no need to strike. That system worked well for some decades hence society runs on auto pilot.
Trouble is, due to globalization and ever more temp contracts (fire at will), the power of unions have been decimated and the combination government/employers are calling the shots, slowly eating away at worker rights.
Our "holy" retirement age used to be 65, unchanged for a huge amount of time. It was declared as unsustainable to keep it that way, instead it should become a rolling number, coupled with life expectancy. My pension fund predicts my retirement age at about 70.5.
This change was pushed through because keeping it at 65 would cost 5B per year for the foreseeable future. Absolutely unaffordable for our tiny country.
40B in support to keep businesses open during COVID though...just pulled from a hat. 25B in energy compensation so that households don't freeze to death...arranged in mere weeks.
Just saying...unaffordable means no political will.
Anyway, regardless of the money mechanics, retiring at 70+ is absurd. It effectively means no retirement at all. I know a huge amount of boomers, many were able to retire at 58-62, especially blue collar. Most by then already were in poor health but managed to pull off a decent decade of rest and joy with still some activity like going on holidays.
By 70 it's over. Some dead, the others depleted. Their partner may have died. They have severe health issues. No energy or will power left to truly have one more adventurous run. Hobbies abandoned. Health and quality of life declines exponentially. 60-70 and 70-80 are not the same thing.
Further, nobody actually wants these old people at work. Blue collar people are broken by then and white collar is either obsolete and outdated or strongly discriminated. I'm in my 40s and struggling to stay relevant.
The point of my rant is that there's always an economic reason to make workers' lives shittier. Always. Every time there's a rational reason to do so that seems to make sense. And that's how you end up working as a couple for 50 years straight. It's never going to be enough.
Only with unity as seen in France can you call out their bluff.
The age should actually be 60 and we should be having ever shorter worker weeks. A concept I call "time for wealth". In the future we probably have to do with less stuff. But it's not a vision for the future to say to people that their wealth is under pressure whilst still needing to work themselves to death.
Hence, we trade that wealth for time. You learn to live with less material goods which increases your appreciation of them. More durable/reparable products. Higher prices because externalities are included. Doesn't have to be bad at all, restoring some sanity here. In return for this material "poverty", you get more economic security, more free time, retire earlier. Also fits in well with our AI future that will disrupt work.
I think that's a vision people can get behind, and we'll still leave the door open for the super achievers that want more stuff.
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#339The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…
Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age
#340This is another example of how the state gets its numbers wrong, promising something it can not deliver without bankrupting the country. France is not alone, other country's have raised the pension age, but other countries use their food legislation to keep the population docile, high house prices to keep people from protesting for fear of losing a roof over their head, and other tactics people are getting wise to an…
No one can predict this stuff decades out. You'd need to somehow predict technological changes, major wars, and other events that require basically being a prophet. Even when people do vow not to cut these programs, they are planning on making a change, it's just what they plan to change is the tax rate or amount of debt issued.
Politicians constantly move the goal posts, to deliberately muddy the water, as we see with annual budget days.
Banksters print new money when they lend out money without explaining how their Basel Bank of International Settlements approved ponzi scheme works.
I can not for the life of me figure out why the public put up with this status quo, but their audacity is on display for all to see.