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French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

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Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#241

Post by vkou »

retinaros wrote: post #235
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

the system IS sustained. the main white collar one even generates profits. increase the salaries that will increase money being sent to retirement funds and it won’t be a problem anymore. france income per capita has been the same for the past 20 years. they are stealing our wages to make us slaves and they blame us for not working enough. christine lagarde pushed for blocking wage rise in the EU, european commission…

> and in a globalised world where most of the goods are made in countries where salaries are rising as well as inflation, blocking our wages is only sending us to the third world .

Just throwing this out here, but in a globalized world, by what mechanism would one expect Europeans and Americans will be able to enjoy a greater standard of living than people in, say, Asia?

Are they somehow smarter? More productive? In control of more natural resources? If not, why would you expect that the first-third world gap to not continue to normalize?

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#242

Post by retinaros »

tiedieconderoga wrote: post #99
omegaworks wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

̶F̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶t̶r̶o̶l̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶c̶u̶r̶r̶e̶n̶c̶y̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶s̶y̶s̶t̶e̶m̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶i̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶a̶x̶e̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶.̶ Oops I forgot about the Euro. Oh well, so much for sovereignty.

If they print more money to meet their pension obligations, that causes inflation which quickly erodes the value of the payments. So, printing money to meet pension obligations has a similar effect to reducing the amount which is paid out. Also, I don't think many people accept Francs as currency anymore.

nope it is not the same outcome. one sacrify the working class and the current generation that went through multiple economic crisis and a horrible housing market while the other sacrifies boomers that lived through full employment and the golden age of france economy. I ve made my choice.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#243

Post by yrdmb »

myshpa wrote: post #234

The world needs basic income, with guaranteed housing, internet and food. We have the means to do it. Upto 75% of population is employed in bullshit jobs anyway (= not producing anything, or even being harmful to the society). Only 2% of population working in agriculture already produces food for 10+ billion people, just 8% works in manufacturing (IIRC). Give the basic income population plant-based food (== use just…

> The world needs basic income

That's all we need. Basic income will allow people to get housing, internet and food.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#244

Post by silisili »

supernova87a wrote: post #156

One big challenge I see with the whole business about pension reform (and government spending in fact) as a public debate is that two sides are talking on totally different planes. In France, and someday very soon, here in the US. And the public in a certain sense, will problematically have to end up voting a simple yes/no on extremely complex topics which are incentivized to push buttons on single issues. cf. Brexit…

Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but sometimes I feel that bloc got all the goodies at everyone else's expense. This isn't a typical 'boomers' or anything argument against the people, but perhaps the demographic itself and the way politics played out.

Pensions are unheard of now, and companies are still struggling to keep up with them, likely meaning lowered wages for the next group(and no pensions). Tough luck.

I fully expect to pay social security my entire life to subsidize those getting it now, and to be dead before I'm ever able to collect a dime.

Honestly, even having paid into it my whole life, I wish they'd just kill it off. It's an unsustainable pyramid scheme, especially as birth rates flattened. Even if I do live long enough to collect, I don't want that burden on the next generations.

The age is going to keep being raised. A quarter of Americans don't even live to 'full retirement age.' And when it's raised so high it's profitable, the USG is just going to raid it like a slush fund.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#245

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

myshpa wrote: post #234

The world needs basic income, with guaranteed housing, internet and food. We have the means to do it. Upto 75% of population is employed in bullshit jobs anyway (= not producing anything, or even being harmful to the society). Only 2% of population working in agriculture already produces food for 10+ billion people, just 8% works in manufacturing (IIRC). Give the basic income population plant-based food (== use just…

> Upto 75% of population is employed in bullshit jobs anyway (= not producing anything).

Source?

I love that so many people are convinced everyone but them is doing nothing and somehow getting paid for it.

> Only 2% of population working in agriculture already produces food for 10+ billion people.

What's your point?

Who's going to take care of sick people? Who's going to educate our next generation? Who's going to maintain our infrastructure? Who's going to police people? Who's going to defend our country from war? Who's going to make sure your cellphone still works? Who's going to make sure your house still has electricity? Who's going to make sure the laws are being followed? Who's going to make new entertainment for you?

We need to do more than just have beans to eat.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#246

Post by supernova87a »

vkou wrote: post #236
supernova87a wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " Do you have some kind of similar study that doesn't come out of the Republican Party? Maybe something a little more non-partisan ?" Not sure what your point is. I'm not sharing the article/infographic and animated budget scenarios as "this is what needs to happen" from some party's perspective. The point is a graphical display of the size of different buckets (which I take as fact) and the sliders that you can pl…

> Sure, talk about it, but can you change the bulk of the US to capture whatever benefit you can from that change, within 50 years to save the programs needing the money? We can start changing it today, and save ourselves the pain of having to deal with it when we retire. It would also improve the quality of our day-to-day life on many dimensions, long before we do. What the grandparent poster is alluding to is that…

I agree with this very much of course.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#247

Post by ErikVandeWater »

supernova87a wrote: post #156

One big challenge I see with the whole business about pension reform (and government spending in fact) as a public debate is that two sides are talking on totally different planes. In France, and someday very soon, here in the US. And the public in a certain sense, will problematically have to end up voting a simple yes/no on extremely complex topics which are incentivized to push buttons on single issues. cf. Brexit…

Is there a fundamental reason that cuts would have to be to benefits? Why not cut xx% of the government budget anywhere but pensions?

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#248

Post by 76384638 »

supernova87a wrote: post #216
nebula8804 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my language but where the f** is all this money going? Is it even humanly possible for a group of regular joes to audit where all the money is going? I think thats the first thing that HAS to happen, a clear transparent audit down to the penny. As a coder, this kind of complexity just drives me up the wall. Also on a side note, I love how sneaky that NY Times article leaves out the option to cut defense . Afte…

If you assume that most government programs have on the order of a very few % misspending or outright fraud (which is the case, aside from fiascos like the pandemic stimulus payments) then you just have to assume that the real decisions to be made are the "should we have this program at all" or "do rates need to increase / benefits need to decrease". The auditing and details will get worked out by an existing governm…

There is no reason to believe government programs are ran efficiently or without large amounts of fraud and corruption. There has to be a reason it costs governments (including government contracts) several times as much to do things compared to the private sector and non-profits.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#249

Post by rootusrootus »

creato wrote: post #191
nebula8804 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my language but where the f** is all this money going? Is it even humanly possible for a group of regular joes to audit where all the money is going? I think thats the first thing that HAS to happen, a clear transparent audit down to the penny. As a coder, this kind of complexity just drives me up the wall. Also on a side note, I love how sneaky that NY Times article leaves out the option to cut defense . Afte…

The top 3 chunks of spending are social security, Medicare, and Medicaid. The majority of that spending is payments to individuals or on behalf of individuals for medical bills. You can probably find the exact fraction of overhead for each program somewhere.

> The top 3 chunks of spending

After national defense, you mean.

https://www.usaspending.gov/explorer/budget_function

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#250

Post by advisedwang »

cudgy wrote: post #74
klyrs wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Americans take to the streets in some states, it's legal to drive through them.

In which states? Under what conditions? What is allowed if a mob threatens or begins to pull you and your family out of your car and beat you to death?

This is a reference to Florida's Combating Public Disorder Act (2021 HB1). Amongst other things it creates a defense to civil damages for personal injury, wrongful death, or property damage if the injured person was "acting in furtherance of a riot" (a crime created in the same act). This was widely reported at the time as being a response to cases of people driving through or shooting rioters, which was seen by the right wing as justified self defense against criminals.

FWIW it looks like there's a injunction against the law being implemented while courts decide on whether it infringes right to protest [1]. From what I understand though, that means any civil suits trying to use that defense would be on hold.

[1] https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/courts-law/2023-01-25/floridas...

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