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Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

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Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#101

Post by Xeamek »

kodah wrote: post #83
Xeamek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh stop with the virtue signaling. We are in IT business for God sake. We make crap ton of money, we can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and the market is still undersaturated by a lot. Obviously loosing job always sucks, but this social movement of caring about workers who were let go was meant to be about poor, low skill laborers with no viable alternative in sight, not heckin programmers lmao

> We are in IT business for God sake. We make crap ton of money, we can work from pretty much anywhere in the world and the market is still undersaturated by a lot. Obviously loosing job always sucks, but this social movement of caring about workers who were let go was meant to be about poor, low skill laborers with no viable alternative in sight, not heckin programmers lmao I don't think all or even most programmers…

Never said you can just willy nilly dance, but you won't be walking hungry, even if you might need to get out your comfort zone and god forbid work in PHP for a few months. Compare that to people who work minimum wage, have no education and are barely keeping things together- them loosing a job and You loosing a job is just worlds apart of a difference

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#102

Post by 112233 »

afishisafish wrote: post #100
112233 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there maybe some jiraisactuallynotbad.com place where I could read on how people use jira as a tool and get stuff done? All I see are rage posts and sites that roast jira, bordering on rage hate that systemd was getting. whenever i try and use jira to get things done, it is genuinely bad tool. As an example, low priority issue that blocks high priority issue is not automatically promoted. This single thing makes j…

That's perfectly configurable in 5 minutes with an automation. Jira out of the box doesn't make your company suddenly more productive. Just like Office 365 doesn't magically work. You need good governance, administration / configuration and proper training to make it generate added value.

No it is not. It is perfectly solvable by dedicated specialist that has long time experience maintainig jira, knows how to interact with jira api, has budget to by licenses for third party plugins that implement such basic functionality etc.

If you ask "normal" it person to do this, i'd like to see those 5 minutes

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#103

Post by harry8 »

newswasboring wrote: post #84
harry8 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... I really don't get the hatred. The hatred pretty much comes directly from the fact that as developers we are not the customer, just the user. What do developers want? Not to wait for flipping ever on every damn mouse click. To be as fast and minimal as possible. Stay out of the way so I can get work done. What does the customer (the person who selects the product and signs away company $ for it) To "manage" deve…

You've written a lot but I don't see what the actual complaints are. Is it just that it's slow af?

Lucky you, you've never used it. Slow, difficult to use, packed full of features you'd rather never have heard of that are utterly useless to getting useful things done that also persistently get in your way, slow you down, make the user interface even more difficult and are the pointy end of management idiotic policy wasting your time in the name of efficiency or whatever the hell idiot managers think they're doing with that garbage. (Not every manager is an idiot but all of them are convinced it's not them and they way they do it is just fine, "So we're updating the workflow...") Jira used to have lots of distracting "opportunities to upgrade" to additional parallel product. Do they still? Flashing notifications that when you clicked them interrupting what you were doing because it's got urgent vibes all over it, it was "you should buy this other thing!" Repeatedly. Yes and I hated myself every time while I trained myself in the knowledge that "Jira important notification means ignore" Great lesson for your team w.r.t. a bug tracker, huh?

Pick 100 things you wanted improved about it, limit yourself to just your top 100, Atlassian did absolutely none of those and yet made them all worse. Every year. And I'm sure it makes good business sense. They know who is signing their cheques, that is who they care about. And I'm also sure they're very relaxed about how developers loathe them, discount me totally and look at the rest of the comments or any time it comes up. That's their right. They can laugh at us all the way to the bank. If you had more money than your great-grand children could spend in lifetime of Brewster splurges why would you care that your users hate you? You've got far more important toys to play with.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#104

Post by edanm »

twblalock wrote: post #26
bzhang255 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should lay off 100% and go out of business. Suggesting that 9000 people lose their jobs feels like a needlessly hateful way to express a dissatisfaction with a company's products.

9000 people who make products that suck should do something else with their lives. Does that mean they will lose their jobs? Yes. It's still the best outcome for the world and those people will get other jobs, hopefully making better products.

> 9000 people who make products that suck should do something else with their lives.

So you not liking some products isn't just grounds for you not using a product, isn't just grounds for telling other people not to use the product, it's grounds for everyone working at the company that makes that product, related to it or not, to be fired.

That's one hell of a leap from your opinion to ideas about what's best for the world.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#106

Post by re-thc »

climb_stealth wrote: post #82
AlotOfReading wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is fervently anti-jira, it wouldn't be that hard to make it tolerable. Just make it so that I can't measure page loads with a wall-clock (I've clocked multi-minute loads before) that need 3-7 clicks to get where I need to be. Don't have an abundance of weird subviews that hide half the editable fields I use for another half that I don't. Make the currently active filters clear. So on and so forth, just…

I wonder if self-hosting is the performance difference. I have worked in projects with 15 years of history in Jira. And they were fine. It feels kind of slow but in reality it takes maybe three seconds to load any ticket. But actual minutes to load stuff? That is insane and I can see where the loathing would come from.

A lot of anecdotes are possibly from some years ago where self-hosting JIRA meant a single server on-premise. You might not get a lot of resources and can be used by the entire organization. The server would be at or over capacity 90% of the time so things could take forever to load.

Self-hosted JIRA also opened up to lots of customisations and hacks, which often weren't performant.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#107

Post by re-thc »

heisenbit wrote: post #87
aato wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on how Jira helps you estimate?

If you have good developer providing honest estimates, no data protection concerns and they diligently provide actuals agile tooling like in Jira can provide great results. But that all depends on culture. The poster seems to be an engaged manager, pays attention to the data and uses it in a sane way and has hired a group of strong developers. This is not your average setup…

It's hard to tell. How does someone truly know if the estimates are honest? It's more like the manager "assumes" it's right and fine.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#108

Post by re-thc »

twelve40 wrote: post #17
twblalock wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies overhired and would have been punished if they didn't. Now they will be punished if they don't shrink. Public companies have to follow the market or their shareholders will slap them down. The real villain is the Federal Reserve, because their policies created a bubble. We should also keep in mind that quite a lot of the people who are being laid off never would have had jobs if it wasn't for the massi…

> Most companies overhired how is it possible for most companies to overhire? where did all those hires come from? maybe facebook doubled by poaching non-faang people, but where did the non-faang companies get all these extra hires from? > a lot of the people who are being laid off never would have had jobs since tech layoffs mostly affect eng, pm's, hr and a bit of management, it seems strange that these mostly well…

Haven't seen a mention for immigration and work visas.

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#109

Post by metaphor »

Probably not a good image that Scott[1] and Mike[2] (via their respective trusts) have been quite busy liquidating 1,076,750 shares each into the public at a rate of 8,614 shares per trading day since the beginning of October last year...all the while laying off 5% of their workforce.

Something about leaders eating last comes to mind...

[1] https://www.sec.gov/edgar/browse/?CIK=0001666121

[2] https://www.sec.gov/edgar/browse/?CIK=0001666120

Re: Atlassian to shed 5 per cent of workers

#110

Post by nivenkos »

twelve40 wrote: post #17
twblalock wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies overhired and would have been punished if they didn't. Now they will be punished if they don't shrink. Public companies have to follow the market or their shareholders will slap them down. The real villain is the Federal Reserve, because their policies created a bubble. We should also keep in mind that quite a lot of the people who are being laid off never would have had jobs if it wasn't for the massi…

> Most companies overhired how is it possible for most companies to overhire? where did all those hires come from? maybe facebook doubled by poaching non-faang people, but where did the non-faang companies get all these extra hires from? > a lot of the people who are being laid off never would have had jobs since tech layoffs mostly affect eng, pm's, hr and a bit of management, it seems strange that these mostly well…

I interviewed several people that had switched from the travel and hospitality industries during the lockdowns.
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