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Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

economist.com

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Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#201

Post by infamia »

yogthos wrote: post #196
manuelabeledo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it. I'm quite familiar with the US and UN positions on China. The first link doesn't say what you thing it does, though. It is even written by the de facto ambassador of Taiwan to Japan. But even ignoring all those links, Taiwan is de facto an independent country. The PRC cannot assert any sort of power in the island, and PRC citizens are not considered Taiwanese nationals.

This is literally false according to UN and international law.

You should not believe the CCP's self serving, feigned morality. If the UN and international norms were so important to the Chinese Communist Party, they would condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which they steadfastly refuse to do. All this despite endlessly lecturing everyone for decades about territorial integrity and internationally recognized borders. Where are those principles now? All of those high-minded thoughts are forgotten the moment it is convenient for the CCP to do so.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#202

Post by bmitc »

epolanski wrote: post #172
bmitc wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west has its own problems, but today's China is not yesteryear's China. China is doing and has done plenty of things in other countries. They are installing mass surveillance systems in Africa, building out African infrastructure as a sort of diplomatic capture by dept, literally stealing land from Nepal and others by building Chinese centers for villages on the edge but making sure they annex bits of land each t…

There's so much to debate in your list, it's just not worth it. Do you know where Italian fisheries are all of the time? North African and turkish coasts. African debt? We're kings of it as of stealing every african resource and abusing those people. Spying, really? You even barely aware how far we go with that? The problem with modern geopolitics is that very few lead by the example.

> The problem with modern geopolitics is that very few lead by the example.

That is effectively the point.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#203

Post by yogthos »

tarkin2 wrote: post #199
yogthos wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The US's position is more complex. You're trying to dumb it down to mislead. (You might want to look up defacto if you don't think they have defacto independence from the PRC) If the people of Florida want Russian-backed independence, as the people of Taiwan want US-backed independence then sure, go for it, my friend.

US position is frankly irrelevant. What matters is the international law, the UN position, and the fact that US acknowledges the UN as an institution. US has no unilateral right to interfere in affairs of other countries any more than other countries.

>If the people of Florida want Russian-backed independence, as the people of Taiwan want US-backed independence then sure, go for it, my friend.

Do you believe even for a second that US would allow China or Russia to do in Florida what US is doing in Taiwan?

Some of us are old enough to remember the Russiagate freakout.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#204

Post by yogthos »

infamia wrote: post #197
yogthos wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US State Department says in black and white on their website that Taiwan is part of China. The fact that you keep trying to pretend there's some ambiguity here is beyond hilarious.

Avtually, he is correct and you are badly misunderstanding the U.S. position of strategic ambiguity [0]. The PRC and the ROC believed for decades and each one claimed that they are both the one true China and the other is an imposter. The US agrees that there is one true China, but they won't say which one. Confusing? That's pretty much the point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_of_deliberate_ambigui...

That's complete and utter nonsense because US has formal relations with PRC and does not have formal relations with ROC.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#205

Post by adastra22 »

bxtt wrote: post #97
dwohnitmok wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I'm aware this is still the official party line of the KMT. It's just that now the DPP (their opposition) is in power.

My parents are from Taiwan with my moms side hardline KMT govt officials, and Dad is Green Party/DPP - grew up listening about Taiwanese politics my entire life around friends and family. I’ve never heard of this stance. I’ve only heard of your stance on Reddit and Twitter within the past two years.

My wife is from Taiwan, so I’m kinda clued into this even if once removed. Doesn’t trump your inside source though. My understanding is that in the last few decades the KMT had been following (in practice at least) a more business-friendly economic and regulatory unification with the mainland. The deals negotiated by the KMT with the PRC that led to the sunflower movement and the rise of the DPP were very much pro-status quo, pro-stability rejection of the historical KMT policy.

The KMT has never officially given up the reconquest position, but it has been decades since that that was anymore than lip service to the one China idea. In practice KMT policies have been pro-unification in the EU or HK sense.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#206

Post by postingawayonhn »

yrdmb wrote: post #174
postingawayonhn wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1.4 billion chinese who won the civil war don't want their island stolen from them. They never gained control of the island. > I think the interests of 1.4 billion chinese outweigh the losing 20 million chinese. I tend to take the view that the interests of dictatorships can be largely disregarded. The 1.4 billion people have not held an election to elect representatives to decide on the issue of Taiwan. Chinese po…

[flagged]

> 95.5 percent of respondents were either “relatively satisfied” or “highly satisfied” with Beijing.

Of course they are. They have no freedom of speech.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#207

Post by adastra22 »

dwohnitmok wrote: post #48
adastra22 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was Taiwanese politics in the 90’s. It doesn’t reflect current party policy.

As far as I'm aware this is still the official party line of the KMT. It's just that now the DPP (their opposition) is in power.

The DPP came into power when the KMT tried to negotiate the first steps towards HK-like reunification though.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#208

Post by unethical_ban »

yogthos wrote: post #61
unethical_ban wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your point?

What part of my comment is unclear to you?

The part where any of that matters. Which country has billions of dollars in defense spending with the US?

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#209

Post by cbHXBY1D »

epolanski wrote: post #95
gman83 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yanukovych was removed from office by Ukraine's parliament: https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/192030.html

By an interim, non-elected government, after months of escalating riots.

True. People should read Richard Sakwa on this matter. According to his well-researched 2015 book, Frontline Ukraine, armed insurgents marched around the debating chamber, instructed MPs to not follow the formal investigatory procedure needed for impeachment, and just to "sack" Yanukovych.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#210

Post by yogthos »

infamia wrote: post #201
yogthos wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally false according to UN and international law.

You should not believe the CCP's self serving, feigned morality. If the UN and international norms were so important to the Chinese Communist Party, they would condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which they steadfastly refuse to do. All this despite endlessly lecturing everyone for decades about territorial integrity and internationally recognized borders. Where are those principles now? All of those high-minded th…

You should not believe the US regime's self serving, feigned morality. If the UN and international norms were so important to the US government, they would not have unilaterally invaded Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other countries murdering million of people. All this despite endlessly lecturing everyone for decades about rules based world order. Where are those principles now? All of those high-minded thoughts are forgotten the moment it is convenient for the US to do so.
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