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Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

economist.com

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Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#101

Post by ginko »

dirtyid wrote: post #70
wk_end wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't about "taking orders", and it had nothing to do with the British. The CCP broke promises they'd made to the people of Hong Kong.

The opposite, HK broke the promise it made to PRC by dragging out implementation of NSL that was always in PRC legal perview to unilaterally implement. The reality is PRC demonstrated stupid patience by letting the HK, the spyhub of Asian operate for 20 years under state of national security exception that any other sovereign would not tolerate. HKers literally had the carte blanche to commit treason (and did), so re…

>HKers literally had the carte blanche to commit treason

You can't commit treason to a country no never agreed to join.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#102

Post by VincentEvans »

yogthos wrote: post #59
edrxty wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If any state is being propagandized into secession it's Florida right now. They, however, find themselves in a race with mother nature to see who will remove them from the continental US first.

The point here is that this is the equivalent of what US is doing, and something US would never tolerate itself. Just imagine for a second if China set up equivalent of NED and USAID, started funding political campaigns in Texas or Florida, and so on. This is what US is currently doing. US is blatantly interfering in Chinese internal politics and violating Chinese sovereignty while acting as if US has some god given…

It’s only surreal if you subscribe to the notion of might makes right. US prevents the change of status quo to be done by force. A diplomatic solution is in everyone’s interest.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#103

Post by nl »

yogthos wrote: post #31

The elephant in the room is that Taiwan is a Chinese province and Taiwan's legal standing is not in question [1]. This is the position held by the UN, and it's the fundamental basis for having diplomatic relations between US and China per Potsdam Proclamation [2] that was signed 77 years ago between China, the US & the UK. This position has never officially changed. And here's what US State Department says on their o…

This explanation gives an incomplete view of US/Taiwan/China relations.

US policy is one of "deliberate ambiguity"[1].

As the quote above says:

> we do not support Taiwan independence; and we expect cross-Strait differences to be resolved by peaceful means.

An uniformed reader might take that to mean that the US doesn't support the Taiwanese government.

An informed reader realizes what it is saying is that the US does not expect the Taiwanese government to give up a claim to be the government of mainland China. Obviously this is quite a different interpretation, and what "deliberate ambiguity" means.

To quote the Wikipedia article above:

> There is deliberate ambiguity regarding the government of the country of 'China' (as well as what land this country constitutes). Currently, two governments claim legitimate rule and sovereignty over all of China, which they claim includes Mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan, as well as some other islands.

The "six assurances" noted in the comment above also include this "deliberate ambiguity":

> 5: The United States would not alter its position about the sovereignty of Taiwan which was, that the question was one to be decided peacefully by the Chinese themselves, and would not pressure Taiwan to enter into negotiations with China

> 6. The United States would not formally recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_of_deliberate_ambiguity

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#104

Post by peter303 »

I can see much of the paywalled article. But I hope it mentions the recent book Chip Wars about how TMSC became the worlds leading high end chip manufacturer. However even they are dependent on international expertise like Extreme Ultraviolet lasers. A Taiwan war could bring international semiconductor manufacturing to a full halt. We have seen previews in covid slowdowns and large 1990s earthquake,

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#105

Post by manuelabeledo »

yogthos wrote: post #84
manuelabeledo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The elephant in the room is that Taiwan is a Chinese province and Taiwan's legal standing is not in question [1]. I believe you haven't read the link you yourself posted.

I believe one of us didn't. Also, maybe keep reading the statement from US State Department until you comprehend it.

I read it. I'm quite familiar with the US and UN positions on China.

The first link doesn't say what you thing it does, though. It is even written by the de facto ambassador of Taiwan to Japan.

But even ignoring all those links, Taiwan is de facto an independent country. The PRC cannot assert any sort of power in the island, and PRC citizens are not considered Taiwanese nationals.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#106

Post by nl »

yogthos wrote: post #81
Dr_Birdbrain wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be interested to know that the status of the sovereignty of Ukraine was not in question at any point right up until the very second that Putin said the Kyiv government was a Nazi government, and invaded. Russia itself was a signatory to the accord that guaranteed the territorial integrity of Ukraine, yet here we are.

And this has what to do with US interfering in the politics a Chinese province again?

To quote one of the six assurances mentioned in your quote above:

> 6. The United States would not formally recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#107

Post by holoduke »

stale2002 wrote: post #35
yrdmb wrote: post #27

[flagged]

> How about letting the chinese people in mainland china and taiwan decide the matter for themselves. Taiwan currently has decided for themselves that they are happy to accept military weapons from the US, to defend themselves in the case of any military action against them from China. If that is Taiwan's decision, they should be supported and allowed to make it.

But who is Taiwan? Because in Taiwan you can be either: pro independent, pro part of China or pro China part of Taiwan. The west only speaks with the first. China with the second. The third are the rebellions.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#108

Post by tarkin2 »

it_citizen wrote: post #20

I am curious what the dominant opinion is in China regarding what the population of Taiwan wants. That the majority of Taiwanese want to become Chinese? That it doesn’t matter what the Taiwan population wants because China has the right to claim it?

Most of the Taiwanese--in fact all--say they're culturally Chinese but politically Taiwanese. That's to say, they do not want Chinese control.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#109

Post by tablespoon »

ozmodiar wrote: post #56
dwohnitmok wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Taiwanese concept of "unification" is not what you're thinking of. The Taiwanese faction supporting unification (usually the KMT) does not envision a world where Taiwan is/becomes a province of the PRC, they envision a world where the ROC governs all current PRC provinces, that is where they are in the seat of power in Beijing. I.e. this is something going in the opposite direction. The opposing faction rejects t…

I've never heard this take, even while in Taiwan. They aren't deluded, they know they aren't retaking the mainland. The reason they don't declare themselves a country is because China won't support it and they're worried it would trigger an invasion. China prefers Taiwan be a rebellious province rather than an independent country because it strengthens China's claim to the island. The KMT used to be feeling out a HK…

>> The Taiwanese faction supporting unification (usually the KMT) does not envision a world where Taiwan is/becomes a province of the PRC, they envision a world where the ROC governs all current PRC provinces, that is where they are in the seat of power in Beijing.

> I've never heard this take, even while in Taiwan. They aren't deluded, they know they aren't retaking the mainland.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's still the KMT's "official" position, and it's probably one they genuinely held for a long time after they retreated to Taiwan. The Taiwan issue is interesting, because China's power and sensitivity means literally none of the important players except China officially says what they really mean, and maintain these ridiculous diplomatic fictions to avoid crossing China's lines.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#110

Post by postingawayonhn »

ninethirty wrote: post #58

If China does invade, then it seems likely that North Korea would also invade SK, forcing the US to fight on at least 2-fronts, or 3 depending on what Russia is doing. If I was rich I'd move to Buenos Aires, the Paris of South America, and wait this thing out.

Why would North Korea try that? I don't believe there is any sign they have plan to invade South Korea.
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