When you don't understand something, and are not inclined to take the time to understand it, you just label it as cargo cult science, or pseudoscience.
Cargo cult science (1974)
101–110 of 164 posts
Re: Cargo cult science (1974)
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Uh, placebos work, and different placebos may work better for different people!
Yep. And given a significant problem and a placebo, would you rather: 1) Not use the placebo, because even though it seems to work for you, it's been scientifically shown in trials to do nothing 2) Use the placebo, because it seems to work; somehow get good results A huge number of people will choose #1. They are extremely close to cargo cult without even realizing it. I'd say that if there's a pos/neg polarization t…
This is the opposite of a placebo. A placebo is a treatment that has been scientifically shown in trials to do something even though it shouldn't. For example, taking a pill or drinking a cup of "medicine" might make your headache feel better even though the pill is just sugar and the medicine is just colored water, and just eating a spoonful of sugar or drinking the same amount of water doesn't have the same effect if you don't believe it's medicine.
We use placebos as the comparison in clinical trials precisely because placebos do something, and we want to show that taking the pill with the actual medicine does more than just taking a sugar pill does. Because of it doesn't--might as well just take the sugar pill.
Placebos do something, and if that something is beneficial then by all means take them. If I can take a sugar pill that makes me feel better I don't really care whether it's psychosomatic or pharmacological. The FDA cares, because they want to encourage real treatments and discourage quackery.
Re: Cargo cult science (1974)
#103Sabine Hossenfelder basically posted a rant about particle physicists on Youtube last week, about how they are doing science wrong. Basically she said you are supposed to change your theory based upon results that don't match the theory, and what they have been doing for decades is looking at gaps in the results, and imagining particle theories that don't alter the expected results in the currently explored energy le…
Re: Cargo cult science (1974)
#104You see this constantly in information technology contexts as well. People who at work, when required to work with many other people on the same project which itself is of a larger scale, then bring kubernetes style containers and ideas about "deployment" home to their personal webserver. And this would be fine, silly, recreation if only they didn't write up articles on "How to host from home" that described their k8…
Instead of immediately when the talk is about clusters jumping to kubernetes, people should think about whether the conceptual overhead is actually worth it. They should think about, whether the Google scale tool is truly appropriate for what they want to do. Similar situation of course with all the hyped JS frameworks, when a simple statically rendered website/page would do.
Basically it is not engineering any longer, but cargo cult and hype. And that is how shitty products are made.
Re: Cargo cult science (1974)
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
While watching her complain I kept thinking, "publish or die".
I don’t get that complaint. It’s like hearing a software engineer complaining “write code or get fired”, yeah, well, that’s your literal job?
Re: Cargo cult science (1974)
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
The central problem is the methodology of science not being taught explicitly anywhere. It should be part of the school curriculum, instead a scientism-version is part of folklore.
There isn't even such a thing as "the methodology of science". People disagree about it and it is constantly evolving. Who should write that curriculum? Sure, there's a lot of common ground that could be taught (and it is taught in some places, we read some Popper in high school). But it's also very abstract, difficult to teach without extensive examples and of very limited use in most jobs. Hardly "the central probl…
"Students" are then sorted into a lab where they learn the specific scientific cookbook of the subfield and in some cases never even try to apply it truly on their own before graduating, because they are used as a lab monkey for 4+ years. Collaborative side projects or substantial additional course work are rare, so students are often functionally the same as a lab employee.
The lab has minimal external incentive to train the person to become a good scientist, and there isn't much cultural pressure either, so the training focus is instead to become a good [hyperspecific topic] lab member.
To graduate a student needs a deep understanding of what was previously shown in their niche, but they really do not need to engage with much at all to do with meta science, and it is wholly possible to graduate without ever demonstrating the ability to ask good scientific questions from the genesis of a project through to it's completion, even in the context of the norms of said niche subfield.
Student experiences of course vary widely, and even for those that do the menial slog version of a bio PhD, the attitude surrounding it varies. Some seem to be happy for the guidance when their advisor is like this while others resent the lack of intellectual freedom.
Regardless, I find this to be pervasive in the environments I've been able to observe, even at a few of the supposedly top life sciences PhD programs in the US. To think deeply about meta science in any official capacity as part of PhD training requires you to go out of your way.
Meanwhile on the other end of the spectrum it is possible to receive a "top" PhD and stay in academia for quite a long time through only a combination of hard work and learning the experimental best practices of the field as if it were a trade (and that might be underrating the nuance in the trades honestly, I don't know enough to say).
I do think it is a difficult problem to avoid to at least some extent, because open questions in biology increase in complexity quite a lot over time, with a big time and financial commitment required to do a number of projects these days. Without radical changes in labor sources for wet lab work I'm not sure the issue can be sufficiently addressed.
I also imagine that even in less expensive/slow fields there is an increasingly unapproachable body of prior knowledge to learn, and people don't want to be trainees forever. So I believe a large philosophical paradigm shift might be needed too.
I'd love to see multiple different types of PhDs introduced with different graduation requirements, funding structures, and intended postgrad career paths, while maintaining the core thesis writing experience across the board.
Re: Cargo cult science (1974)
#107Sabine Hossenfelder basically posted a rant about particle physicists on Youtube last week, about how they are doing science wrong. Basically she said you are supposed to change your theory based upon results that don't match the theory, and what they have been doing for decades is looking at gaps in the results, and imagining particle theories that don't alter the expected results in the currently explored energy le…
Serial contrarian jumps on table and shouts. More at 11. A telltale sign of a crank is attacking career scientists, which is her brand. What insight is she offering? Destroying is easy, creating is hard. Lies spread faster than truth. In general she is a force of confusion rather than enlightenment. It's too bad because she seems capable, if only she'd follow through rather than chase headlines.
Re: Cargo cult science (1974)
#108Corollary : When you don't understand something, and are not inclined to take the time to understand it, you just label it as cargo cult science, or pseudoscience.
Granted such a violent burst doesn't always happen when an academic bubble is created. But at times I've found academic backlash to be shockingly irrational in its breadth. I think the most common factor is when the pseudoscience makes it to the point of having an impact on actual humans. But it is still sad to see a state when even tenured faculty will shy away from public discussion of certain questions because of vague associations, as it feels entirely unscientific to me.
The funniest part is when the area reemerges with a new name, as if extremely surface level branding is actually important to receiving grants or publishing papers. Well I suppose it is unfortunately, but this is one of those cases that feels so thinly veiled it might as well be scientific satire.
My personal favorite example is the galvanic skin response hype from 50+ years ago, which morphed into more of a fringe science primarily because of flaws with lie detection applications - flaws that should've been extremely obvious concerns to test just based on the OG literature + common scientific sense. In the last decade or so it's been revamped as electrodermal activity and unsurprisingly shown great promise for certain health applications.
EDA is presently the main focus of a big group at MIT, it has been included in some Fitbit models, it is used in FDA approved devices for epilepsy monitoring, and overall the relevant publications per year keep trending back up. A far cry from the looks you'd get if you discussed galvanic skin response in certain supposedly scientific circles back in the day.
In absolute numbers the rebranded GSR has actually already fully recovered from the couple decades of low research activity, though relative to total academic output now versus then it probably still has some distance to go.
Re: Cargo cult science (1974)
#109Re: Cargo cult science (1974)
#110>I say that’s also important in giving certain types of government advice. Supposing a senator asked you for advice about whether drilling a hole should be done in his state; and you decide it would he better in some other state. If you don’t publish such a result, it seems to me you’re not giving scientific advice. You’re being used. If your answer happens to come out in the direction the government or the politicia…
Science without transparency is just politics.