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Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

economist.com

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Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#121

Post by uniqueuid »

epolanski wrote: post #117
uniqueuid wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While these facts are important, they sound like Taiwan is unequivocally part of the PRC. But that's probably not what people in Taiwan or many western nations would say. - Taiwan clearly has the outward appearance of a full-fledged nation - There are (few) countries that have recognized it as a sovereign nation - Taiwan maintains some form of diplomatic relations, and Nancy Pelosi's recent visit was a very public si…

> they sound like Taiwan is unequivocally part of the PRC No, they sound like Taiwan is part of China, something the entire world and Taiwan itself officially recognizes. It's like the US had a civil war and the losing side flees to Hawaii and in 2090 we still arguing whether it is part of not of US or should it declare independence.

> It's like the US had a civil war and the losing side flees to Hawaii and in 2090 we still arguing whether it is part of not of US or should it declare independence.

That actually sounds like a very plausible counterfactual to someone outside the US.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#122

Post by yogthos »

VincentEvans wrote: post #102
yogthos wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point here is that this is the equivalent of what US is doing, and something US would never tolerate itself. Just imagine for a second if China set up equivalent of NED and USAID, started funding political campaigns in Texas or Florida, and so on. This is what US is currently doing. US is blatantly interfering in Chinese internal politics and violating Chinese sovereignty while acting as if US has some god given…

It’s only surreal if you subscribe to the notion of might makes right. US prevents the change of status quo to be done by force. A diplomatic solution is in everyone’s interest.

Might makes right has literally been the policy US has pursued throughout its history. What US is doing is creating a tension half way across the world from itself by funding and arming a separatist movement in a Chinese province. This is something US would never tolerate being done on its own territory.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#123

Post by postingawayonhn »

holoduke wrote: post #107
stale2002 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about letting the chinese people in mainland china and taiwan decide the matter for themselves. Taiwan currently has decided for themselves that they are happy to accept military weapons from the US, to defend themselves in the case of any military action against them from China. If that is Taiwan's decision, they should be supported and allowed to make it.

But who is Taiwan? Because in Taiwan you can be either: pro independent, pro part of China or pro China part of Taiwan. The west only speaks with the first. China with the second. The third are the rebellions.

The west speaks with the government democratically elected by the people.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#124

Post by mytailorisrich »

jmclnx wrote: post #3

All they need to do is look at what happened in Hong Kong. If China did not do what they did in Hong Kong, Taiwan may be headed to some kind on unification. Now, they would be crazy to even entertain that thought. This issue lies directly on China and no one else. If I had a say in Taiwan, I would announce it is now a independent Country.

Considering how the mainland and Taiwan split there is never going to be a peaceful reunification as long as the communists are in power on the mainland. That's why Beijing did not care, and does not care, about the signals they send in HK.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#125

Post by yogthos »

DennisP wrote: post #94
yogthos wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point here is that this is the equivalent of what US is doing, and something US would never tolerate itself. Just imagine for a second if China set up equivalent of NED and USAID, started funding political campaigns in Texas or Florida, and so on. This is what US is currently doing. US is blatantly interfering in Chinese internal politics and violating Chinese sovereignty while acting as if US has some god given…

If the people of Taiwan want to be independent, then it seems a bit paternalistic to assume that it's only because of US propaganda.

No, we can assume that because of long and well documented history of US interfering in Taiwan and pouring billions of dollars into creating a secessionist movement there.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#126

Post by ChatGTP »

steponlego wrote: post #10
mupuff1234 wrote: post #6

Probably a completely idiotic suggestion, but why can't the US secretly provide Taiwan with a few nukes if things really heat up as a very last measure to deter China.

China would provide us with a few if we did that. Actually I believe the nukes are coming soon but thankfully will be limited to Europe and the UK.

Thankfully?

There is nothing ‘thankfully’ about watching millions of people be vaporised or their skin melting off and children with cancers?

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#127

Post by yogthos »

nl wrote: post #106
yogthos wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this has what to do with US interfering in the politics a Chinese province again?

To quote one of the six assurances mentioned in your quote above: > 6. The United States would not formally recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan.

US State Department literally recognizes Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan, so does UN and practically every nation in the world.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#128

Post by postingawayonhn »

yrdmb wrote: post #111
stale2002 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only "independent" because we got involved The people of Taiwan do not want to be invaded by China. So, given that this is their wish, and Taiwan wants to be able to defend itself, it is OK to support their wishes and give them the means to defend themselves. > The decision was already made. Well, they are right now deciding that they want to be able to defend themselves. So I respect that decision, which is that t…

[flagged]

> 1.4 billion chinese who won the civil war don't want their island stolen from them.

They never gained control of the island.

> I think the interests of 1.4 billion chinese outweigh the losing 20 million chinese.

I tend to take the view that the interests of dictatorships can be largely disregarded. The 1.4 billion people have not held an election to elect representatives to decide on the issue of Taiwan. Chinese policy has been decided by a dictatorial elite.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#129

Post by ipnon »

anonkogudhyfhhf wrote: post #25
cm2187 wrote: post #7

What I don't get is that to invade Taiwan, China needs a large amount of ships and cargo planes, both of which seem very vulnerable to modern missiles (as the Russian army found out in Ukraine). Do the chinese have a solution for that?

Honestly Taiwan should go nuclear. It might be there only solution

PRC would suddenly become vehemently interested in NPT if this occurred. It would instantly trigger war.

Re: Taiwan is a vital island that is under serious threat

#130

Post by yogthos »

postingawayonhn wrote: post #120
yogthos wrote: post #31

The elephant in the room is that Taiwan is a Chinese province and Taiwan's legal standing is not in question [1]. This is the position held by the UN, and it's the fundamental basis for having diplomatic relations between US and China per Potsdam Proclamation [2] that was signed 77 years ago between China, the US & the UK. This position has never officially changed. And here's what US State Department says on their o…

They hold that official position because China demands they do to maintain relations. The US and most other western countries don't actually believe that.

US has no business interfering in Taiwan. Period.
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