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Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

community.roku.com

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Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#121

Post by Syonyk »

yamtaddle wrote: post #21
Syonyk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wonder why don’t support it. It's probably harder to tie devices in a single household together with IPv6 than with IPv4, or so they think. They don't make (much) money on their devices, they make money on selling data collected and aggregated by their devices. Their "privacy" policy [0] is a hoot to read. "Whatever we can do, we will. If the laws of the country we collected the data in would interfere with that, w…

> __and information about other devices connected to the same network__ They may also be doing more nefarious things, but this might just mean it watches for UPNP and other announcement-broadcast messages on your network (like, say, mdns).

The rest of their "Haha, you bought one of our devices, all your data is ours!" policy doesn't give me much cause to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

At least some people [0] have reported their Roku device scanning their network, which is explicitly allowed in that policy. Though you can probably do a lot of it passively without leaving those annoying traces.

Once they've granted themselves permissions to do it, why wouldn't you? Knowing a house is an Apple household with a lot of devices probably means they've got money, or at least a willingness to take on debt. You can get a sense of when devices come and go to help identify activity, and if you're particularly annoying, you could snoop wireless signal strength of other devices on the LAN to get an idea of who's in the room with you.

If it's only got a few Androids and Chromebooks, well, probably lower income. If you can't find a thing on the LAN, you're probably in the house of a computer security researcher and should behave. Etc.

If they meant to say "We watch for UPNP announcements to identify other content sources on your LAN," they could have said that. But they didn't. They left the door wide open to do whatever home LAN analysis they think they can get away with.

I mean, this is a company whose response to the "Do Not Track" bit is to ignore you [1]. No standards? It's literally in the name.

> Do Not Track

> Some Internet browsers include the ability to transmit “Do Not Track” signals. Since uniform standards for “Do Not Track” signals have not been adopted, the Roku Sites do not currently process or respond to “Do Not Track” signals.

[0]: https://community.roku.com/t5/Wi-Fi-connectivity/Roku-Device... [1]: https://docs.roku.com/published/cookiepolicy/en/us

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#122

Post by blibble »

hitpointdrew wrote: post #15

Who the hell is giving their Roku a public IP? How is this remotely a problem? This is 100% not the fault of Roku, and 100% the fault of the ISP. The ISP should have an IPv6 to IPv4 gateway built into their modem/router. You have a WAN port that is IPv6 and an LAN port that IPv4. IPv6 for local networks, makes no sense is completely unnecessary, and is a hill I will die on. IPv4 is here to stay.

> IPv6 for local networks, makes no sense is completely unnecessary, and is a hill I will die on. IPv4 is here to stay.

my mobile phone in the UK on one of the big 4 carriers only has IPv6 addresses

and only has IPv6 connectivity

(using 464XLAT)

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#123

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

goosedragons wrote: post #67
Scubabear68 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple TV doesn’t have ads.

It basically has ads with the default home screen setup to show you what's new on ATV+ and iTunes. Slightly more tasteful than McDonald's McDelivery Banner ads but it's essentially the same.

The background-banner at the top of the Home Screen shows banners from the currently highlighted app - if you remove the AppleTV+ app from the top-row of your home-screen then you don’t see any promotions of any kind.

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#124

Post by blibble »

phpisthebest wrote: post #66
znpy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you probably want to firewall off inbound traffic from the WAN to the LAN But all modem/routers are doing it anyway, they might as well do that on ipv6. Effectively all router appliances (at home and soho level) are linux appliances, and the firewall is built into the kernel (and in use anyway).

Sorry I do not trust the likes of home router vendors to implement a linux firewall correctly While people may say "NAT is Not security", it is in fact a layer (ahd huge one) in the security onion, that ipV6 is likely going to increase drastically the amount of ransomware and other malware on the public internet simply because that NAT layer is gone

> that ipV6 is likely going to increase drastically the amount of ransomware and other malware on the public internet simply because that NAT layer is gone

malware has connected outwards to c&c servers for more than 20 years

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#125

Post by zamadatix »

znpy wrote: post #35

The amount of idiocy and ignorance around ipv6 is crazy. I’ve seen many supposedly senior engineers that claimed they didn’t want to implement ipv6 because anyone could connect to hosts from “outside”. Nat has become so engraved in people’s thinking that they can’t even understand the actual role of a firewall anymore. We’re going to see many stories like this, where networking incompetence will start costing pretty…

On the flip side I'm so regularly impressed by what random HNers know about networking (particularly due to containers) I sometimes wonder if there is a point in me being a network guy!

I think a large part of the general attitude is IPv6 is a topic everyone is exposed to but few have really been expected to know so there is a lot of strong feelings about how it's crazy compared to the thing they've already spent 20 years getting familiar with. I think if everyone was exposed to NAT in the same fashion there would be a 10x stronger reaction against NAT than IPv6 but at this point everyone is used to NAT and IPv4 and forgets how weird/annoying they really are too.

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#127

Post by tristanbvk »

znpy wrote: post #35

The amount of idiocy and ignorance around ipv6 is crazy. I’ve seen many supposedly senior engineers that claimed they didn’t want to implement ipv6 because anyone could connect to hosts from “outside”. Nat has become so engraved in people’s thinking that they can’t even understand the actual role of a firewall anymore. We’re going to see many stories like this, where networking incompetence will start costing pretty…

I have devices on public v6 at home. When I hear people complain about these things I honestly ask them. What the hell are you running on your machine that you dont want anyone accessing? Bind it locally then or use an fwall.

I am astounded by the lackadaisical stance of network admins in the pro-v4 camp.

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#128

Post by lillecarl »

hitpointdrew wrote: post #15

Who the hell is giving their Roku a public IP? How is this remotely a problem? This is 100% not the fault of Roku, and 100% the fault of the ISP. The ISP should have an IPv6 to IPv4 gateway built into their modem/router. You have a WAN port that is IPv6 and an LAN port that IPv4. IPv6 for local networks, makes no sense is completely unnecessary, and is a hill I will die on. IPv4 is here to stay.

How do you reach all 2^128 ips when you only have 2^32 destinations?

IPv6 makes sense everywhere.

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#129

Post by tristanbvk »

baq wrote: post #44
silisili wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel similarly, but what is the solution? IPv4 blocks are all but impossible to get anymore, there's a waiting list at ARIN that doesn't really ever move. The company I was working at signed up 3 or 4 years ago for a /24 and never heard back to this day. Sure you can rent/buy them on the open market, but that's only going to last so long, and eventually puts anyone without FAANG money out of the running...

Regulation. Incentivize ipv6, tax ipv4 only devices, mandate ipv6 in government networks.

Ah yes "the government will fix it" okay .

Maybe practice what you preach and deploy v6. I have. Infact I run v6 only.

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#130

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

ehPReth wrote: post #14
scarface74 wrote: post #11

> First off I despise both Apple and that other evil empire (house of mouse) I want nothing to do with either of them. It’s funny that the poster despises Apple. But is okay with a company where the CEO explicitly said that they want to make money not via hardware sells, but via selling user’s television watching behavior. Everything about the Roku is a janky experience. From the ad that takes up the Home Screen to t…

> via selling user’s television watching behavior Gross. I hate how commonplace this is becoming. Even your basic non-Roku-OS TV people are saying never to connect it to the internet as it'll just fingerprint stuff on your HDMI and tell advertisers you're watching Game of Thrones

I used to think like that, then I realised that my life is not actually being made worse because of it. The TV doesn’t know who I am, personally (I’m not signed-in to any accounts) and it’s all just mass aggregate data that will probably end-up being ignored by network-execs so why worry?
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