Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs • Hacker News Board

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#11

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 9:34 PM UTC

> First off I despise both Apple and that other evil empire (house of mouse) I want nothing to do with either of them.

It’s funny that the poster despises Apple. But is okay with a company where the CEO explicitly said that they want to make money not via hardware sells, but via selling user’s television watching behavior.

Everything about the Roku is a janky experience. From the ad that takes up the Home Screen to the hard coded buttons that go to the highest bidder.

I have one remote that still has a useless Rdio button.

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#12

Post by colordrops » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 9:34 PM UTC

dmitrygr wrote: post #4

My #1 step in troubleshooting any network issues is to disable IPv6. Step #2 is so rarely needed that I no longer remember what it was. IPv6 has been a failure, it is about time we openly admitted it. Why? Simple - it causes consumer pain and no consumer gain

At least for local applications at home, this has been my experience as well. I'm sure data center operators love ipv6 but it's been nothing but a headache with no benefit for home consumer use.

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#13

Post by yamtaddle » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 9:35 PM UTC

dmitrygr wrote: post #4

My #1 step in troubleshooting any network issues is to disable IPv6. Step #2 is so rarely needed that I no longer remember what it was. IPv6 has been a failure, it is about time we openly admitted it. Why? Simple - it causes consumer pain and no consumer gain

I remember when I first got Google Fiber and the solution to "amazon.com will not load, ever, period" was to disable ipv6 on their router.

Not sure I've ever bothered to turn it back on.

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#14

Post by ehPReth » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 9:36 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #11

> First off I despise both Apple and that other evil empire (house of mouse) I want nothing to do with either of them. It’s funny that the poster despises Apple. But is okay with a company where the CEO explicitly said that they want to make money not via hardware sells, but via selling user’s television watching behavior. Everything about the Roku is a janky experience. From the ad that takes up the Home Screen to t…

> via selling user’s television watching behavior

Gross. I hate how commonplace this is becoming. Even your basic non-Roku-OS TV people are saying never to connect it to the internet as it'll just fingerprint stuff on your HDMI and tell advertisers you're watching Game of Thrones

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#15

Post by hitpointdrew » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 9:37 PM UTC

Who the hell is giving their Roku a public IP? How is this remotely a problem? This is 100% not the fault of Roku, and 100% the fault of the ISP. The ISP should have an IPv6 to IPv4 gateway built into their modem/router. You have a WAN port that is IPv6 and an LAN port that IPv4.

IPv6 for local networks, makes no sense is completely unnecessary, and is a hill I will die on. IPv4 is here to stay.

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#16

Post by jmclnx » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

Syonyk wrote: post #6

vkdelta wrote: post #2

For a company who thrives on making cheap devices and charging for licenses/platform, this is almost a crime especially when supporting ipv6 on Linux based devices is much easier now. Wonder why don’t support it.

> Wonder why don’t support it. It's probably harder to tie devices in a single household together with IPv6 than with IPv4, or so they think. They don't make (much) money on their devices, they make money on selling data collected and aggregated by their devices. Their "privacy" policy [0] is a hoot to read. "Whatever we can do, we will. If the laws of the country we collected the data in would interfere with that, w…

> It's probably harder to tie devices in a single household together with IPv6 than with IPv4, or so they think

So I wonder if this means it is harder to ID the consumer with IPv6 ?

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#17

Post by dmitrygr » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #10

dmitrygr wrote: post #4

My #1 step in troubleshooting any network issues is to disable IPv6. Step #2 is so rarely needed that I no longer remember what it was. IPv6 has been a failure, it is about time we openly admitted it. Why? Simple - it causes consumer pain and no consumer gain

You can’t just change the size of an IPv4 address without creating a whole new thing.

Yes, but let's not pretend that IPv6 was just IPv4 with a larger addr size. A lot of other unnecessary cruft got changed. That is kinda the issue. Add an extra octet to IPv4, call it IPv5. Done. DHCP (as is) can already handle variable-length addresses so it'll work unmodified for 5-byte addrs, for example. Same for ARP.

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#18

Post by ehPReth » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

dmitrygr wrote: post #4

My #1 step in troubleshooting any network issues is to disable IPv6. Step #2 is so rarely needed that I no longer remember what it was. IPv6 has been a failure, it is about time we openly admitted it. Why? Simple - it causes consumer pain and no consumer gain

If only everyone hadn't dragged their feet "because it's too hard"; we could maybe be living in an IPv6 utopia? Maybe if the government started handing out fines? haha

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#19

Post by toast0 » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

Syonyk wrote: post #6

vkdelta wrote: post #2

For a company who thrives on making cheap devices and charging for licenses/platform, this is almost a crime especially when supporting ipv6 on Linux based devices is much easier now. Wonder why don’t support it.

> Wonder why don’t support it. It's probably harder to tie devices in a single household together with IPv6 than with IPv4, or so they think. They don't make (much) money on their devices, they make money on selling data collected and aggregated by their devices. Their "privacy" policy [0] is a hoot to read. "Whatever we can do, we will. If the laws of the country we collected the data in would interfere with that, w…

> It's probably harder to tie devices in a single household together with IPv6 than with IPv4, or so they think.

It's probably easier, in fact. A significant and growing number of households are behind CGNAT on IPv4 and not have a 1:1 household : ip address relationship. On the other hand, if they're on IPv6, they're most likely on the same /64.

But, Roku's not doing IPv6 was handy for me when Netflix decided not to accept IPv6 connections over Hurricane Electric tunnels. I didn't have to change anything, and I didn't have to do anything, the Rokus were already ignoring IPv6.

Re: Roku devices don't support IPv6 in 2023 and it's costing ISPs

#20

Post by zamadatix » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

By traffic it seems like "if only we didn't have these Rokus!" but it's a streaming device, it generates a lot of traffic compared to the other IPv4 only devices. Inevitably the long tail of devices is what's costing them extra (sounds like CG-NAT dual stack or 464xlat at the gateway) not just the Roku devices.

As someone who operates their own ASN with IPv6 because I like v6 so much the problem here was simply poor planning. Handing out Apple TV's to replace Roku devices isn't going to make the need for v4 services go away at these homes.