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ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

politico.eu

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Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#281

Post by andsoitis »

corbulo wrote: post #103
hourago wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ban social scoring, not the AI, the tool doesn't matter. Automated human classification without recourse nor transparency is what the EU is against. "You cannot get a loan because the AI says so" is not acceptable. > Would it be good if it was computed by hand on paper instead of through AI? Yes. As a judge can check what information was used and what algorithm applied to get to a conclusion. And it may declare tha…

>Automated human classification without recourse nor transparency is what the EU is against. "You cannot get a loan because the AI says so" is not acceptable. The credit score system already in place in the US is frequently as arbitrary in some cases already. You get punished for just looking at it. I don't think I need to preach to HN about that (crypto money and all that). Does Europe do it much differently? Not an…

> You get punished for just looking at it.

Can you elaborate? Everyone of the banks I use have an affordance on their website/app that allows me to see my credit score, history, etc. The bank puts it pretty front and center, so if even juts viewing it has a negative impact, why do you think the bank would make it so easy?

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#283

Post by lm28469 »

forgotusername6 wrote: post #239
xdennis wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the EU's fault that you have to click cookie banners. Those banners are only required if a website plans to do malicious things with the cookies. If they're used to track who's logged in, they are not required. They are more akin to the "Do not eat" warnings on silica packs... except on the internet everyone swallows.

This is not the interpretation I've been told. All stored things i.e. cookies, local storage, tracking jpegs etc must be described to the user and have an opt out.

> tracking jpegs

tracking pixel ? Are you sure you know what you're talking about ?

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#284

Post by fnomnom »

cccbbbaaa wrote: post #89
astrea wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With that, I'm honestly surprised GDPR ever even became a thing at all.

Because similar laws already existed in member states, sometimes for literal decades, before GDPR came along.

yeah gdpr is just a standartisation of the different member states data privacy laws.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#285

Post by Thiez »

ilyt wrote: post #139
influx wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the thought you've put into this, and I tend to agree. Ideally, a weaker person would be able to use a tool to provide self defense in the most limited way possible without causing harm or damage to anyone other than the attacker. Unfortunately the tools we have currently aren't great at that.

> Ideally, a weaker person would be able to use a tool to provide self defense in the most limited way possible without causing harm or damage to anyone other than the attacker. Landmines in the garden it is then. Hard to use offensively.

A shame if a child that accidentally threw a ball in your garden steps on them, or even just the overweight neighbours cat. Or a visitor stumbles on them duling a bbq. But such casualties are apparently a small price to pay for feeling safe.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#286

Post by Ekaros »

KyeRussell wrote: post #140
skissane wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The credit score system already in place in the US is frequently as arbitrary in some cases already. You get punished for just looking at it. I don't think I need to preach to HN about that (crypto money and all that). Does Europe do it much differently? Almost every country has some kind of credit reporting system, but many of them differ from the US in how they do it. In particular, in many countries, credit bure…

Yup. Until recently, Australia only had negative event reporting. Still, you’d regularly have kids that had been brainwashed by US-centric personal finance gurus (and American media more generally) asking how they could boost their “credit score”. Fully willing to sign up for and use credit cards as an 18-year-old student to juice some system they had been led to believe existed in the first place.

I think in Finland having too many credit lines would actually hurt you with loans. However well you have handled those. As important factor is total amount of loans or capacity to get them.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#287

Post by IMTDb »

kelnos wrote: post #267
corbulo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Automated human classification without recourse nor transparency is what the EU is against. "You cannot get a loan because the AI says so" is not acceptable. The credit score system already in place in the US is frequently as arbitrary in some cases already. You get punished for just looking at it. I don't think I need to preach to HN about that (crypto money and all that). Does Europe do it much differently? Not an…

> You get punished for just looking at it. Not completely false, but misleading: you get penalized if a lender looks at it with the express purpose of using it to decide whether or not to offer you credit (called a "hard pull"). You looking at your own credit report does not penalize you, and certain other activities (like getting pre-approved for a loan) won't either. The penalty for hard pulls isn't that bad, anywa…

So, GET request not only aren't idempotent but they also affect the party that is read. Who came up with that lovely system ? I gave it roughly 15 seconds of thought and came come up with multiple ways this design fucks up people lives.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#288

Post by andsoitis »

wb14123 wrote: post #191
Kranar wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The credit score system already in place in the US is frequently as arbitrary in some cases already. The credit score system is not arbitrary, it's a specific formula that applies equally to everyone. >You get punished for just looking at it. No you do not. There are hard inquiries and soft inquiries, and an individual viewing their own credit score is considered a soft inquiry which has absolutely no effect on your…

> it's a specific formula that applies equally to everyone. That doesn’t mean the formula is reasonable or transparent. An AI is also a specific formula that applies equally to everyone. It’s about how the formula takes “weight” on the individual’s differences. > There are hard inquiries and soft inquiries Why there are “hard inquiries”? Why someone else inquiring my credit score should affect my credit score?

> An AI is also a specific formula that applies equally to everyone.

AI’s are not “a specific formula” and not only that, it’s decision-making is opaque to humans.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#289

Post by seszett »

karmasimida wrote: post #163

Laughable attempt to control something very few can understand at the moment. What does control mean? You want to control who can access it? Maybe for now, you can broker a deal with OpenAI, but this technology will eventually spread, then if can be self hosted, what can you do? If not for consumer facing, nothing will stop somebody to transfer data from EU to US to get their data processed by a GPT model. This level…

> Laughable attempt to control something very few can understand at the moment.

It's a simplistic take on a misunderstood directive law project.

The point of that law is just to ban decisions made through black box algorithms, mostly because a black box algorithm (typically, some kind of "AI") cannot be proofed against discrimination and cannot explain why the decision was made, which is a regulatory requirement.

That ChatGPT is generalistic enough to make these decisions the same way a specialist credit score AI would, doesn't really change anything to the EU plan or anything really. It would just be as illegal (and likely already deemed illegal in most EU countries under local laws).

> nothing will stop somebody to transfer data from EU to US to get their data processed

Well, EU law already forbids that. So you can do it of course, but it's outright illegal. Companies have already been fined significant fines for doing that, and most companies I know and work with are very aware of it, and take extreme care not to send data to or through the US.

Of course, individuals can choose to use US services because this has nothing to do whatsoever with controlling people but controlling companies, which is exactly the opposition situation compared to China.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#290

Post by clbrmbr »

Sai_ wrote: post #282

All I ever hear about the EU and tech is in the context of regulating something or another, don’t remember the last time they loosened a rule or two to make innovation easier.

Why do they need to? The innovation has largely been happening in the USA. (Or is this no longer the case?)
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