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Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

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Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#221
post #206

The cashierless thing is fine, but is never going to be the reason people pick one store over another. The problem with Amazon Go is that they have been trying to target the "upscale convenience store" demographic which doesn't really exist. If getting rid of human labor lowers operating costs then why doesn't that reflect on the price tag on the shelf? Charging 2x what the CVS next door does defeats the purpose. Mor…

> If getting rid of human labor lowers operating costs then why doesn't that reflect on the price tag on the shelf Are they getting rid of human labor? Who is doing stocking, as needed cleanup, opening/closing, and overseeing all that? I'm guessing humans are doing that. And as a customer. It seems to be most of what the people who also work as cashiers are doing, outsidd of a few rush periods where those other tasks…

Your comment just made something click for me.

CVS (a drug store) by me has also gotten rid of cashiers... but for self-checkout. So have Royal Farms, a regional gas station/convenience store chain. At both places, if you really try, you can maybe get a cashier at a single human cashier counter, but it's normally unstaffed, and everyone directed to the multiple self check out stations.

(I think USA readers know what i mean by self checkout station, but it's, where you can items yourself, and place them in bags yourself, and it yells at you if it doesn't detect the right weight of items placed in bags on a platform, and the whole thing is video taped).

Amazon's stre isn't really an alternative to cashiers, it's an alternative to universal self-checkout that everyone else is moving to -- accelerated by the pandemic, but still relatively early on the adoption curve.

I assume universal self-check-out does reduce staffing needs, which is why they are all moving to it?

I suspect the Amazon cashierless stores won't really take off until all their competition is universal self-checkout. (Which may never happen in say NYC, where you have so many independent very-low-overhead bodega-type stores. But in most places, the competition is more like CVS or Royal Farms).

Although I dunno, maybe I'm unusual in prefering human contact to self-checkout, something about the choices being self-checkout with a line or walk out of the store without checking out -- starts to make the Amazon option actually look like something you would want.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#222

I used to visit one of the NYC the Go stores daily until covid happened. It was cute and surgically clean, worked wonderfully, and their inventory management was much better then CVS and Duane Reade which often sell out of things and have empty shelves for days. But nobody ever went there - no matter what time of the day I went, there would be one person doing inventory and stocking, two people standing by to help pe…

Isn't the whole point of Amazon generally, and these stores specifically in not having staff, that it's supposed to be cheaper? I think you've pinpointed the reason it failed, but I can't imagine why they thought it was going to succeed at those prices.

I'm not sure it actually failed. These stores work by having AI track customer actions via camera, and over the last couple of years they've gotten a ton of data and domain knowledge from them. It isn't hard to imagine that's been leveraged in whatever's watching the cameras at Whole Foods.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"if you don't give up all your privacy to mega corp then you deserve to be blacklisted by society"

The whole point of the go stores was to do retail in a different way, where you had to conform to their way or it wouldn't work. Yes, it was limiting for people that didn't have a phone with them or account info. Do all of these people befuddled by the phone/app requirement for go stores struggle when they go to pick up something at an amazon locker? It's basically the same thing, you can't "talk to someone" to get your locker opened that is on the back wall of the drugstore.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#224
I went to one in SoCal and was terrified. the entrance they asked me you to scan my prime membership, and told me that I can then fill out my basket - and basically walk out with my stuff without checkout - just moving it into a bag on the way out.

I asked how they know what’s in my basket to charge me for it and they said that there are cameras watching me the whole time and noting what I take off the shelf and put in it.

I was beyond creeped out by the whole experience. Never went to that store again.

Knowing that they not only watch what I’m buying but also recording and analyzing my gate, motion, gaze, microecpressions etc freaked me out.

Amazon’s vision to cattle-ize humanity for profit is not attractive to me.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#225

I used to visit one of the NYC the Go stores daily until covid happened. It was cute and surgically clean, worked wonderfully, and their inventory management was much better then CVS and Duane Reade which often sell out of things and have empty shelves for days. But nobody ever went there - no matter what time of the day I went, there would be one person doing inventory and stocking, two people standing by to help pe…

Isn't the whole point of Amazon generally, and these stores specifically in not having staff, that it's supposed to be cheaper? I think you've pinpointed the reason it failed, but I can't imagine why they thought it was going to succeed at those prices.

Cheaper for Amazon, yes. Why would they externalize the profit? Just maximizing extraction by eliminating the few remaining local jobs.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it wasn't clear I needed to use an app (and therefore would require access to my password which I didn't have on my phone) since I was just trying to return a product.

Amazon lists lockers in buildings with controlled access as drop off points as well. It’s up to you to confirm you have access to the locker. If you need an app to enter that store and you need to enter the store to return an item, then it’s pretty clear you need an app to return an item at that store.

They didn't say I needed it.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#227
post #206

The cashierless thing is fine, but is never going to be the reason people pick one store over another. The problem with Amazon Go is that they have been trying to target the "upscale convenience store" demographic which doesn't really exist. If getting rid of human labor lowers operating costs then why doesn't that reflect on the price tag on the shelf? Charging 2x what the CVS next door does defeats the purpose. Mor…

The funny thing is, I never got the impression it had less employees than a typical CVS. They were just either in the back keeping the items stocked on the shelves, helping customers feel comfortable with the the idea they just walk out, or keeping an eye on theft.

Actually, I'd be curious to know what the hiring situation looked like. Good employees would only stick around if they felt valued and paid fairly, otherwise they'd turn over. So you'd be left with the worst of the bunch. Since Amazon would have to find ways to keep retention up, they would likely have to pay market rate, or slightly above to attract willing people. That extra cost is definitely passed on to the customer.

Disregarding the prices for the sake of argument, I still prefer CVS as it just feels easier to navigate. CVS accumulated a half century of tiny little details that Amazon Go just doesn't have figured out yet.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#228
I've always found the concept of these puzzling; I find interacting with the folks in stores, even if it's merely exchanging a smile and a friendly word with the cashier, to be a joy in the day to day chores; from the first I heard of these, I thought it tragic that some would want to go there. Horn&Hardart left a lasting memory, but I haven't felt it was nostalgia.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#229
I hope a similar style store opens in my area. I stop by a CVS nearby decently often but the self checkout counters are a pain. I wonder if it could be made into an optional system though where if you don't identify on entry then it assumes you want a traditional shopping experience. Otherwise existing chains are going to find it hard to switch to this type of model if they wanted to.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So did you get your refund? If so, sounds like it wasn’t a disaster.

Well since the return process took the best part of 15 minutes for this state-of-the-art store, and I would have had no recourse if the refund didn't go through (since I had no proof I'd returned it), I won't be rushing back in a hurry. So in that respect it was a failure.

15 minutes to return something honestly seems… fine? Like I’ve gone to brick and mortar stores to return things and had it take upwards of an hour for the overworked customer service folks to make it through the line of folks
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