Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#161

Post by nprateem » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 5:23 PM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #105

everdrive wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's different because there's a long-standing precedent that you don't need to install a smartphone app to use a store.

Sure, but Amazon Go is, as the comment you replied to states, a store which literally is built to require an app to use . This argument is thrown out the window when you shop at a store which explicitly and from its inception has required this. As the commenter stated, > So then why attempt to go to a store that’s entirely based on using the app?

Because it wasn't clear I needed to use an app (and therefore would require access to my password which I didn't have on my phone) since I was just trying to return a product.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#162

Post by davidgay » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

flangola7 wrote: post #120

devmor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anecdote is almost certainly made up nonsense. Grocery stores are incredibly low-margin businesses.

A lot of people seem to have been raised with this attitude that pretty theft from a ruthless retail corporation is some kind of unthinkable sin. My mom and dad regularly lifted from wally world to make sure our family had enough. Always taught my siblings and I that stealing from regular people or small local/ethical businesses is wrong, but against enormous manifestations of brazen greed it was was open season. As…

> A lot of people seem to have been raised with this attitude that pretty theft from a ruthless retail corporation is some kind of unthinkable sin.

You're not actually stealing from the "ruthless retail corporation". You are stealing from the customers who don't steal.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#163

Post by TAKEMYMONEY » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

kentosi wrote: post #8

Slightly misleading title. They're closing 8 of their stores across NYC, SF, etc, and this is after they just opened a few more across the US.

The actual title is "Amazon Go closing 8 of its c-stores," the HN post title is misleading

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#164

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #105

everdrive wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's different because there's a long-standing precedent that you don't need to install a smartphone app to use a store.

Sure, but Amazon Go is, as the comment you replied to states, a store which literally is built to require an app to use . This argument is thrown out the window when you shop at a store which explicitly and from its inception has required this. As the commenter stated, > So then why attempt to go to a store that’s entirely based on using the app?

[deleted]

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#165

Post by dumpsterlid » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #67

crazygringo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In basically every retail store, and especially grocery/convenience stores, you are being observed by security cameras at literally every second. In every aisle. This has been the case for decades. It's how they catch shoplifters. I rather like the fact it can be used for customer convenience now, rather than just punitively.

The constant filming from every angle is what makes me even more confused when you need to personally tell employees that something is broken somewhere, or the queue for the cash register is miles long, or some sales point isn't staffed and has people waiting. Everything is being watched, why aren't they reacting proactively?

[dead]

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#166

Post by mmanfrin » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

I do not like Amazon, but I absolutely loved the Amazon Go stores. When I worked in the city, it very quickly became part of my routine to stop by to pick up breakfast or a snack. Being able to walk in and walk out reduced an enormous amount of friction and I honestly wish this experiment worked.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#167

Post by permo-w » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

jonny_eh wrote: post #150

nprateem wrote: post #30

I had to go to one to return a package. I couldn't get past the turnstiles because I don't use the app and don't know my password because I use a password manager. This meant I couldn't hand my parcel in at the counter. The woman on the turnstile wouldn't let me in even when I explained the situation. So she went off and got a scanner to take my package. She didn't offer a receipt, and when I asked for one said it wa…

So did you get your refund? If so, sounds like it wasn’t a disaster.

if they didn't, they'd undoubtedly have mentioned it

I have no love for amazon, but besides the lack of receipt, this seems like an issue they created for themselves

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#168

Post by nprateem » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

jonny_eh wrote: post #150

nprateem wrote: post #30

I had to go to one to return a package. I couldn't get past the turnstiles because I don't use the app and don't know my password because I use a password manager. This meant I couldn't hand my parcel in at the counter. The woman on the turnstile wouldn't let me in even when I explained the situation. So she went off and got a scanner to take my package. She didn't offer a receipt, and when I asked for one said it wa…

So did you get your refund? If so, sounds like it wasn’t a disaster.

Well since the return process took the best part of 15 minutes for this state-of-the-art store, and I would have had no recourse if the refund didn't go through (since I had no proof I'd returned it), I won't be rushing back in a hurry. So in that respect it was a failure.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#169

Post by rootusrootus » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 5:25 PM UTC

jstummbillig wrote: post #99

I have actually had a very positive experience with cashier-less shopping – albeit not with Amazon Go and in the EU. As of now, it's been heavily benefited from never having to wait in a line (because the vast majority of people will still opt for the cashier lanes) but I actually found the UX (which in my case always included scanning of products like a cashier would) actually quite delightful and surprisingly never…

> What are other experiences?

For a number of years now our local grocery/everything store has operated a cashierless option. When you enter, you grab a handheld scanner, and scan as you go. It's pretty cool.

But it seems like nobody really uses it. And the two locations closest to me seem to have dropped it altogether. People are apparently more comfortable with just using old school self-checkout. Those have continued to proliferate, and account for way more than half the available checkout options.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#170

Post by joezydeco » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

ddejohn wrote: post #138

joezydeco wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. It's pretty amazing when it works. I used to try and speedrun the Go store and see how fast it worked. My fastest visit was 9 seconds, receipt was 100% accurate.

Interesting. Another commenter made the point that retail stores already have massive surveillance systems in place, and that it was a good thing that they're being used non-punitively for once. Me, I'm not so sure. I don't think I'd like being reminded that my every movement is being watched. At least when I go to a store, I completely forget about security because I'm, you know, not there to steal something. It doe…

The Go stores completely hide the technology. All the cameras and sensors are tucked away behind shelves or painted black and mounted on the blacked-out ceiling.

I mean, with the Go stores there really is no concept of shoplifting since you need a payment method to walk in. Shoplifting would involve fooling the sensors and I suppose Amazon takes that as a cost of training their systems. There are many videos of people trying things to fool the system but I don't know how successful that is.

On a philosophical level I don't see any difference between this and, say, an employee following you with a clipboard and marking down everything you do. You're a customer in a private business and they can make any rule they want. Short of anonymous bartering for goods and services in an outdoor setting you really don't have much of a say. If Amazon hides the surveillance is it a trap, or just a way of making you feel more comfortable making impulse purchases?