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Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

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Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#161

Post by shafyy »

Aachen wrote: post #40
lispm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> always need to buy a ticket I buy all my tickets online. That's largely possible in Germany. I can't remember when I last needed to buy a physical ticket.

Bahn afaik isn't allowed to sell you tickets when the start and destination are within a regional operator, and my regional operator (to get to work) doesn't have a web shop. The bus drivers are comically confused when I try to buy "einen Viererkahrte zu Aachen, drei Stück" so that I don't have to deal with it every other office day (this I can pay with a convenient 50€ bill and lasts about a month, give or take). Th…

The DB app allows you to buy tickets for local transport associations - not sure if it includes everything, but so far I always found the regional tickets there.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#162

Post by projektfu »

eastbound wrote: post #7
johndoe0815 wrote: post #2

This is outdated, currently the planned start date is May 1st. However, there seem to be still discussions about implementation details (availability only in an app vs. as a chip card or on paper, use of a subscription model). It's a horrible mess - and still too expensive for people with low incomes. In hindsight, it is amazing that the 9 Euro ticket experiment last year worked at all.

> still too expensive for people with low incomes It can be said about anything . 49€ per month for transportation in all cities is 5% of a low-income salary; Saying that this effort is not enough validates the theorem that no government is left enough for a leftist to stop saying “It’s not really left”.

If 49€ is too much, how are they getting to work now? If they can walk or bike to work, they don't need rail. If their current fare is less, they presumably can continue using it.

In my area, lower-income workers still usually need cars. They spend at least this much on gas each month. There's a lack of reliable transit options which makes a vicious cycle of low ridership and fewer options. I wish we could build out the bus/rail system we need and promote it. The city's not that big and everywhere could be within 30 minutes if buses and trains were as frequent as they are in other countries.

I think the German transit authorities are looking at the situation and saying that there are a lot of people who currently drive that could be given a little incentive to take rail. Sometimes when you make something free, people stop valuing it. If the goal is to boost ridership, a nominal cost makes people want to get their money's worth by riding. But at free, they might continue to drive and keep the train just for days when the car is in the shop. People are weird like that.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#163

Post by _cenw »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #13

I'm somewhat surprised that they go for this model. It's 49 Euro per month with restrictions to regional services. However that ticket is available for tourists, students, pensioners, workers and regular people at the same price point. I would have assumed they make that ticket only available yearly and with discounts to students or pensioners. The way the Austrian ticket works (91 Euro per month for regulars, 68.5 E…

Eurail passes are still a steal, and include long distance trains. I'm honestly a bit upset I can't buy one to use here.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#164

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

ocimbote wrote: post #96
NGC404 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it indeed is hardly possible. See: https://www.openrailwaymap.org/

That is an amazing resource!! Thanks for sharing!

Which browser are you using? Shows a blank page for me.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#165

Post by shjake »

sokoloff wrote: post #92
locallost wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still try that, but that's not the intention. The target audience are basically commuters. I had a colleague a couple years ago that went around 100km total both ways to work. He briefly considered switching to train but balked at the price of about 200 per month. This despite the fact that gas cost him more, his car commute was longer and he was paying for a parking spot. I guess the logic was he already pai…

I’m skeptical given that reducing your colleague’s cost from around 1000€/mo all-in (inc. parking) to 200€/mo wasn’t enough that a further reduction to 50€/mo will tip the scales.

How do you know it was 1000€? Maybe if it was closer to let’s say 500 and an extra 300 was seemed like a reasonable price to them for the additional convenience.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#166

Post by em-bee »

dathinab wrote: post #145
em-bee wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i find this the most appealing aspect of the new ticket, that it competes with and underbids the local and regional monthly tickets. i expect in the long term many of these local offers will disappear or drastically be reduced in price. i remember some time ago when i lived in NRW the monthly ticket for the city i was in was open to all of NRW on weekends which i thought was awesome. and now the whole country for the…

Interestingly the ticket the OP owns will not disappear and can still be monetarily beneficial in some cases. While the 49€ ticket is cheaper and has (way) more reach the "VBB Umweltkarte" has some additional benefits. Like: - in the evening (20:00) and on week ends you can take an additional adult as well as a child along for free - it's not person bound so you can pass it to other people This means that e.g. for a…

"VBB Umweltkarte" has some additional benefits

good point, but a lot of people will switch, and offers like these may want to lower the price to remain attractive.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#167

Post by bratwurst3000 »

Xylakant wrote: post #152
throwaway87915 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that about the fuel and not the vehicle? If we manufactured diesel out of wood or algae, the same cars would suddenly become very green - in case of algae cultivation for fuel, you can reach carbon negativity (the process net-decreased carbon in atmosphere). This is likely more green than building battery electric vehicles with large capacity. Batteries are great but cars don't need more than 100km of charge. L…

The process cannot be carbon negative unless you sequester the algae somehow. All the carbon the algae captures while growing will be released when they decompose.

Hmm could be that the way is co2->algea->hydrocarbon->H2 and carbon as a byproduct.

Still I dont think its Carbon negativ because they rather make hydrocarbons out of it and the production uses energy plus. Only wanted to state the possibility of Carbon negativ as real.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#168

Post by dav_Oz »

Don't expect German "Pünktlichkeit" on German railways, though.[0]

The Austrian and especially the Swiss railroad systems are far superior.

Since the "Bahnreform" of 1994 the infrastructure progressively deteriorated from the passenger's perspective. One hard fact: about 20% of the railroad network has been dismantled since 1994 (44.600km to 33.400km [1]). Way too much. Reasons for this are a confluence of excessive bureaucracy, brutal management style, powerful industry interests (think e.g. "Autobahn"), lobbying.

Today's "Deutsche Bahn" as an entity is split into eight distinct divisions [2]; DB Schenker (global logistics and freight transport company) is by far the most profitable of the bunch and single-handedly lifts the whole DB group out of the red on the regular basis, it accounts for about 50% of the total revenue.[3]

[0]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AGCmPLWZKd8

[1]https://www.allianz-pro-schiene.de/themen/infrastruktur/schi...

[2]https://ibir.deutschebahn.com/2021/en/group-management-repor...

[3]https://images.app.goo.gl/EwYJsvbHFxaWifbQ6

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#169

Post by bratwurst3000 »

throwaway87915 wrote: post #148
siva7 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not destroying it but forcing them to acknowledge the truth about climate.

Isn't that about the fuel and not the vehicle? If we manufactured diesel out of wood or algae, the same cars would suddenly become very green - in case of algae cultivation for fuel, you can reach carbon negativity (the process net-decreased carbon in atmosphere). This is likely more green than building battery electric vehicles with large capacity. Batteries are great but cars don't need more than 100km of charge. L…

You are right about biodiesel. Most energydense crops that we grow are used for meat production and generates a shitlod of greenhouse gases on the way. Less meat consumption would mean more crops could be used for biodiesel

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#170

Post by diffeomorphism »

_cenw wrote: post #159

I have a love-hate relationship with this. I love it conceptually and I think it's the right model, but it has a lot of problems. For one, people on unemployment benefits don't even have close to 49 Euros allocated to them for transport. They'll likely be overpaying for local trips and continue to not be able to afford long distance trips. And two, the infrastructure here is just not ready for more passengers. The 3…

> for one,...

Obvious problem, so obviously gets addressed, but no reason to include all details in this short overview. TLDR: they pay much less.

> infrastructure not ready.

Agreed, but chicken/egg and time limited and basically free is very, very different than permanent and 49.

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