Is the issue that Meta and Google comply with the law(turning in the data to crime investigators), or that the law itself is medieval? I mean, both are concerning in their own way. But the latter seems like a much much bigger problem.
Both.
Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers
121–130 of 198 posts
Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
> comply with the law What concerns you about this?
First came the data, then came the law. That is the problem: we have nothing to hide until someone changes the law. Suddenly those things that were legal yesterday become the crimes of today.
Are laws being retroactively applied or since the date the law came into effect, plus some grace period ?
Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers
#123This is not the story. The story is Roe v. Wade overturned due to heinous corruption of the US political process in favour of the religious right and free market libertarians.
Roe v. Wade was a corruption of the political progress (and I say this as a non-american pro-abortionist). If you want to have a law on abortion make an actual law.
I mean, SCOTUS said otherwise for fifty years. They decide what is and isn't legitimate and it was fair play until last year.
I agree with you in principle but AFAIK "actual laws" have never been necessary when the SCOTUS has declared a Constitutional right. Individual states don't need to codify a right to keep and bear arms, or freedom of speech or religion, nor can they choose to re-enable slavery or segregation, because those have all been decided at a higher level.
Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
> comply with the law What concerns you about this?
First came the data, then came the law. That is the problem: we have nothing to hide until someone changes the law. Suddenly those things that were legal yesterday become the crimes of today.
> That is the problem: we have nothing to hide until someone changes the law.
As it happens the Dutch authorities were pretty good with collecting ethnicity and confessional data in the inter-war period, then the very bad guys came along and we know what followed.
Data collection at scale and especially data centralization has always been a mistake, too bad many of the livelihoods of us here depend on exactly that.
Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Think of it this way though: 50 years of legal precedent was overturned last year. Women who are young enough to get abortions have lived their entire lives not being considered murderers, legally. Abortion was an explicitly protected legal right. Now suddenly, a woman is transformed overnight from a citizen freely exercising their legal right into an illegal murderer — but of course only in certain localities. How a…
Sounds opposite to what’s going on with pot in many states. Illegal for decades. Now legal. Massive U-turn. Laws of the land change, like everything else in this world.
The crucial difference is that pot users don't suffer from the massive U-turn. Rather, they celebrate it. They're the ones who lobbied for the change.
Suddenly making people happy and freer is fine. Suddenly making them miserable and taking away their longstanding rights is another matter.
It's the same thing with women getting the right to vote in 1920. Women themselves wanted it and lobbied for it!
Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
As long as there is diversity of people and jurisdictions the law will vary from place to place. What is legal and acceptable in one place is illegal and abhorrent elsewhere. Until we have a homogenous global population and one world government there will be laws you disagree with and wont want enforced. Edit: Genuinely confused by the downvotes here. Anyone care to take the time to explain?
> As long as there is diversity of people and jurisdictions the law will vary from place to place. You forgot from time to time. Abortion was legal in all of these places 1 year ago.
Yes, that too.
Social mores and laws can change pretty quickly, in decades.
Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
First came the data, then came the law. That is the problem: we have nothing to hide until someone changes the law. Suddenly those things that were legal yesterday become the crimes of today.
> That is the problem: we have nothing to hide until someone changes the law. As it happens the Dutch authorities were pretty good with collecting ethnicity and confessional data in the inter-war period, then the very bad guys came along and we know what followed. Data collection at scale and especially data centralization has always been a mistake, too bad many of the livelihoods of us here depend on exactly that.
Maybe employers and schools should stop collecting diversity data in case a less inclusive nation invades the United States.
Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
First came the data, then came the law. That is the problem: we have nothing to hide until someone changes the law. Suddenly those things that were legal yesterday become the crimes of today.
Are laws being retroactively applied or since the date the law came into effect, plus some grace period ?
The data was generated, the law changed and law enforcement asked for all user data. There is nothing retroactive here.
There is no respect for the context in which the data was generated.
Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Firstly, can you even prosecute a woman for abortion? Aren't they legal? In case you've been living under a rock for the last while: several American states have banned abortions[0][1] after the Supreme Court overturned Roe vs Wade. The federal government failed to implement any laws to safeguard access to abortions so overturning Roe vs Wade was all that conservatives needed. Some states have exceptions for rape a…
> I agree, if the police finds other illegal acts during a legal investigation, they should be allowed to act on that. I'm not sure this principle is a good one. Almost everyone had probably broken a law or two (yes, this meane there are too many bad laws, let me know if youve an idea of how to solve that), so by investigating someone for some random thing they haven't done you've got a good chance of finding somethi…
>yes, this meane there are too many bad laws, let me know if youve an idea of how to solve that)
I, in fact, do. All laws come with baked in sunset dates. No exceptions. Furthermore, it's clear there is a need for some sort of secondary legislature or sub committee of the primary dedicated to the repeal of bad law. Then again, if that worked, we wouldn't necessarily be in the problem we're in.
Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
First came the data, then came the law. That is the problem: we have nothing to hide until someone changes the law. Suddenly those things that were legal yesterday become the crimes of today.
> That is the problem: we have nothing to hide until someone changes the law. As it happens the Dutch authorities were pretty good with collecting ethnicity and confessional data in the inter-war period, then the very bad guys came along and we know what followed. Data collection at scale and especially data centralization has always been a mistake, too bad many of the livelihoods of us here depend on exactly that.
the only good data is the data that isn't collected.