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Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

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Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#41

Post by jeroenhd »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #31
amelius wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they didn't support E2EE and homomorphic encryption.

The Techcrunch article[1] (linked in TFA) mentions FB Messenger was used, which does not have E2EE. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2023/01/27/digital-data-roe-wade-repr...

Tragically enough, Facebook Messenger does actually support E2EE. However, it needs to be enabled per contact/chat. Facebook's bad UX may just have become a driving force behind the conviction.

Facebook is improving E2EE according to their blog: https://about.fb.com/news/2023/01/expanding-features-for-end...

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#42

Post by f6v »

raverbashing wrote: post #20
joaonmatos wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disingenuous. Contraception and abortions freed women from being locked into patriarchal family structures (see the thousands of years of history where women were passed from father, to brother, to husband with no choice in the matter).

Exactly For men, it was always "pro-choice", child support and paternity tests are a recent invention (and don't compare with how hard it is to raise a kid) If men got pregnant you could have your abortion together with your haircut

> For men, it was always "pro-choice"

You dramatically underestimate the number of both men and women who’re against abortion.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#43

Post by jeroenhd »

dalanmiller wrote: post #27
Barrin92 wrote: post #11

Baffling to me that people still use Messenger. Not even switching the company is necessary, with WhatsApp at least they'd have message encryption.

I’d say most WhatsApp users don’t realize they are backing up to Google Drive in clear text.

For those using WhatsApp: you can actually encrypt the GDrive backups, and has been for a while now: https://www.androidpolice.com/whatsapp-end-to-end-encryption...

The default setting is still unencrypted backups, though.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#45

Post by orra »

jeroenhd wrote: post #39
numbers_guy wrote: post #6

It shouldn't be up to Facebook/Google to decide what is a crime, nor in which cases wiretapping should be allowed.

Abortions are now a crime in several American states, close if not equal to murder. These companies just do what they've always done when it comes to murder cases: hand over the data when the authorities demand it through warrants. As they should, in theory. Facebook and Google are not to blame here; they're simply doing what the law demands of them. These companies are not above the law, they cannot refuse warrants.…

> Facebook and Google are not to blame here; they're simply doing what the law demands of them

The article disagrees:

> One legal expert said social platforms may cooperate with police even if not legally required to.

Regardless, you are right these companies are morally culpable for not implementing E2EE.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#47

Post by caf »

mulmen wrote: post #38
unmole wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp is supposedly end to end encrypted. Does Meta claim anything similar about its other platforms?

Is it really? I always assumed it was like Zoom end to end encryption where one of the “ends” is a Facebook data center. How can a user prove the claim of end to end encryption?

There was a bit of a song and dance when Whatsapp adopted the Signal protocol. Certainly if you choose not to back up your Whatsapp messages, your old messages aren't available when you switch phones.

If they're not end-to-end encrypted, they're engaging in a lot of deception to indicate that they are.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#48

Post by yanderekko »

orra wrote: post #45
jeroenhd wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortions are now a crime in several American states, close if not equal to murder. These companies just do what they've always done when it comes to murder cases: hand over the data when the authorities demand it through warrants. As they should, in theory. Facebook and Google are not to blame here; they're simply doing what the law demands of them. These companies are not above the law, they cannot refuse warrants.…

> Facebook and Google are not to blame here; they're simply doing what the law demands of them The article disagrees: > One legal expert said social platforms may cooperate with police even if not legally required to. Regardless, you are right these companies are morally culpable for not implementing E2EE.

>One legal expert said social platforms may cooperate with police even if not legally required to.

From my reading of the article this is purely speculative, however. There's no actual assertion that FB/Google are doing more than complying with valid warrants, other than observing that this appears to be the case with other types of warrants. So I guess one could fault these companies for not fighting tooth and nail over these warrants in a way they wouldn't for other warrants, but that seems like a weak condemnation.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#49

Post by jeroenhd »

mulmen wrote: post #38
unmole wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp is supposedly end to end encrypted. Does Meta claim anything similar about its other platforms?

Is it really? I always assumed it was like Zoom end to end encryption where one of the “ends” is a Facebook data center. How can a user prove the claim of end to end encryption?

Almost all of WhatsApp has been E2EE for years, based on the same protocol Signal uses. This goes for text messages (personal and groups) and calls. Cloud backups are not encrypted by default, but encryption can be enabled.

WhatsApp doesn't have an open source client so verification is difficult. However, if someone were able to break the encryption, I'm sure it'd be in the headlines of most newspapers.

One exception is WhatsApp business: I don't know the details, but Facebook offers a service where they will do some chat automation for your business which means they must receive the keys.

In terms of security: key changes are automatically accepted. They are hidden by default, but by toggling a setting every time a user updates their keys, a message will be introduced into the chat. QR code key validation has been in the app for years now, though I doubt many users are using the feature.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#50

Post by diceduckmonk »

f6v wrote: post #44

Is the issue that Meta and Google comply with the law(turning in the data to crime investigators), or that the law itself is medieval? I mean, both are concerning in their own way. But the latter seems like a much much bigger problem.

> comply with the law

What concerns you about this?

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