Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#91

Post by madeofpalk » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 11:20 AM UTC

lapcat wrote: post #60

ThinkBeat wrote: post #52

>Facebook and Google comply with the law. >When presented with a valid warrant they hand over the data requested. The article seems to imply that the big social media companies should selectively comply with a valid warrant based on what crime the accused has committed. I think you should either have problem with the entire procedure or agree that the procedure is valid.

> The article seems to imply that the big social media companies should selectively comply with a valid warrant They already selectively comply: "According to internal statistics provided by Meta, the company complies with government requests for user data more than 70% of the time".

Purely opinion, but I'm sure a non-trivial amount of government requests for user data are invalid, warrantless, or unfulfillable (contains incorrect information).

> As we have said in prior reports, we always scrutinize every government request we receive to make sure it is legally valid, no matter which government makes the request. We comply with government requests for user information only where we have a good-faith belief that the law requires us to do so.

(But) they seem to apply legal discretion on which to follow, which is mostly expected. When Meta receives a request/warrant they must use their judgement to determine whether it's legal or not.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#92

Post by heavyset_go » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 11:20 AM UTC

yanderekko wrote: post #48

orra wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook and Google are not to blame here; they're simply doing what the law demands of them The article disagrees: > One legal expert said social platforms may cooperate with police even if not legally required to. Regardless, you are right these companies are morally culpable for not implementing E2EE.

>One legal expert said social platforms may cooperate with police even if not legally required to. From my reading of the article this is purely speculative, however. There's no actual assertion that FB/Google are doing more than complying with valid warrants, other than observing that this appears to be the case with other types of warrants. So I guess one could fault these companies for not fighting tooth and nail…

> From my reading of the article this is purely speculative, however.

Apple publishes statistics about their shared data, and whether data shared was shared because of a warrant or request. The company very often just hands over data without a warrant, a simple request is all that's needed. I doubt they are unique in that regard.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#93

Post by misnome » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 11:20 AM UTC

lapcat wrote: post #60

ThinkBeat wrote: post #52

>Facebook and Google comply with the law. >When presented with a valid warrant they hand over the data requested. The article seems to imply that the big social media companies should selectively comply with a valid warrant based on what crime the accused has committed. I think you should either have problem with the entire procedure or agree that the procedure is valid.

> The article seems to imply that the big social media companies should selectively comply with a valid warrant They already selectively comply: "According to internal statistics provided by Meta, the company complies with government requests for user data more than 70% of the time".

That says nothing about warrants.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#94

Post by lelanthran » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 11:20 AM UTC

croes wrote: post #66

numbers_guy wrote: post #6

It shouldn't be up to Facebook/Google to decide what is a crime, nor in which cases wiretapping should be allowed.

So if the Iranian government wants data, they should comply?

> So if the Iranian government wants data, they should comply?

If they want to do business in a certain nation, they'll have to comply with the laws of that nation.

Are you proposing that companies be above the law? That they should be able to pick and choose which laws apply to them?

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#95

Post by dools » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 11:21 AM UTC

nilmask wrote: post #82

dools wrote: post #71

This is not the story. The story is Roe v. Wade overturned due to heinous corruption of the US political process in favour of the religious right and free market libertarians.

Safeguarding the privacy of a user's personal information is a technological problem that should be solved through the development and correct usage of cryptographic primitives that secure that data.

I completely disagree. If you're trying to subvert the political/legal process through innovation then you're only accelerating the path to dystopia.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#96

Post by madeofpalk » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 11:21 AM UTC

markles wrote: post #57

jeroenhd wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firstly, can you even prosecute a woman for abortion? Aren't they legal? In case you've been living under a rock for the last while: several American states have banned abortions[0][1] after the Supreme Court overturned Roe vs Wade. The federal government failed to implement any laws to safeguard access to abortions so overturning Roe vs Wade was all that conservatives needed. Some states have exceptions for rape a…

> In case you've been living under a rock for the last while: It might surprise you, but people who don't live in America probably don't follow, nor care about the politics going on in specific states.

Seems to be weird to roll into the comment section if you don't follow this, nor care.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#97

Post by kevincox » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 11:21 AM UTC

f6v wrote: post #44

Is the issue that Meta and Google comply with the law(turning in the data to crime investigators), or that the law itself is medieval? I mean, both are concerning in their own way. But the latter seems like a much much bigger problem.

I think this issue is that we are giving these companies the ability to reveal sensitive information about us.

We should rethink how we share our data and the costs that it has.

I don't think Meta and Google are to blame here. Other than encouraging us to give them our data unprotected (as well as trying to syphon up as much as they can get their hands on in the background).

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#98

Post by aww_dang » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 11:22 AM UTC

croes wrote: post #66

numbers_guy wrote: post #6

It shouldn't be up to Facebook/Google to decide what is a crime, nor in which cases wiretapping should be allowed.

So if the Iranian government wants data, they should comply?

A better question might be, "Should they have data in this readily accessible format given the potential moral hazards?"

They could opt-out of being forced to comply with or defy authorities.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#99

Post by fluxinflex » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 11:22 AM UTC

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #76

feeela wrote: post #18

Is this real? This sounds like a weird trip back into medieval times. Who is the head of that modern Inquisition?

What sounds like a trip into medieval times? Government control over corporations? Corporation oversight over private lives? Isn’t that what the new generation of enlightened and progressive people wanted?

But wait, isn't that what was happening in medieval times: the church ruled over the peasants, the kings ruled over the states and everyone was happy living in a liberal and free world - well at least they believed that.

Re: Facebook and Google hand over user data, help police prosecute abortion seekers

#100

Post by madsmith » Sun, Mar 05, 2023, 11:23 AM UTC

lapcat wrote: post #60

ThinkBeat wrote: post #52

>Facebook and Google comply with the law. >When presented with a valid warrant they hand over the data requested. The article seems to imply that the big social media companies should selectively comply with a valid warrant based on what crime the accused has committed. I think you should either have problem with the entire procedure or agree that the procedure is valid.

> The article seems to imply that the big social media companies should selectively comply with a valid warrant They already selectively comply: "According to internal statistics provided by Meta, the company complies with government requests for user data more than 70% of the time".

And the other 30% is unknown so we can’t say they selectively comply. It’s quite possible the other 30% are invalid warrants, in which case there’s nothing to comply with.