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Non-linear career paths are the future

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Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#51
post #8

High School Dropout -> GED -> Redneck Tech School -> RF Tech -> OJT -> Electronic Test Engineer -> Extracurricular Learning -> Big Iron Programmer -> Extracurricular Learning -> Mac Programmer -> Major Corporation -> Major Engineering Company for 27 Years (as Engineer and Manager) -> Declared Persona Non Grata in the Tech Industry (for Being Old) -> Extracurricular Learning -> Working for Free on Stuff That I Find In…

Sounds like a wild ride. I wish you all the best for the future. Have you considered woodworking? :)

Is woodworking the inevitable end-game for every 45+ year old?

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#53
post #14

For a decade at Amazon, nearly everyone I worked with was following the linear, expected path. High school, university, degree, FAANG job. Amazon basically didn't interview SDE1s unless they were new grads. For a number of years that policy was explicit from our Director because "we find that works out best". Now I'm at Shopify, where it feels like a complete 180. More than half my team took non-traditional paths- fo…

I was told degree to FANG wasn't a common path and you had to "cut your teeth." lol

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#54
post #14

For a decade at Amazon, nearly everyone I worked with was following the linear, expected path. High school, university, degree, FAANG job. Amazon basically didn't interview SDE1s unless they were new grads. For a number of years that policy was explicit from our Director because "we find that works out best". Now I'm at Shopify, where it feels like a complete 180. More than half my team took non-traditional paths- fo…

That's interesting, most women I know were heavily encouraged and incentivized to go into computer science and engineering from university. Do you not live in a western country? I would expect similar incentives and pushes all over.

I don't really know about the background of the (few) women I know in my industry now though, except for the Indian ones who do seem to have a higher represenation and do I think seem to have engineering/cs degrees.

It sounds like the incentivization in the west is not working then, it is not getting to the right people or not going about things the right way. It actually doesn't surprise me if it does become a disincentivization for many women. It does seem pretty patronizing, shallow, and tone-deaf IMO, more likely designed by and for the political and grievance industries rather than actually being honest about women in technology and working to remove real barriers they face.

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#55
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Shopify have a choice? Many Canadians who got computer science degrees left to work for American companies for 2x-3x more money.

Shopify is a remote company. They can hire wherever they want. I suspect it’s a cultural preference. Anecdotally, I know a senior dev who moved back to Canada from SF to work for Shopify.

They can't hire people who prefer to work in the US for higher salaries though, which is the point.

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#56
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you can subsidize shitty working environments with large salaries

Amazon also pays much less than the other top tier tech companies. Maybe that's changed in the last 6 months but that was yet another reason why top talent didn't go there.

A quick look on levels.fyi doesn't really support this. What are you basing that on?

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#57
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boomer-esque speak. You're out of touch if you think that architecture is what anyone cares about these days. It's about getting PMF and first to ship. Everything else is not even secondary but completely forgotten. If you can manage to make good architectural decisions while shipping incredibly fast - hey, congrats, you got lucky on this project. But I've worked with plenty of devs with 20+ years of experience and w…

You’re right, of course. Sadly, I find that I have the heart of a craftsman, so I won’t compromise my own Principles. True, some (a lot, maybe) folks will sneer at me as a “poor,” and look down on me, for not being willing to compromise my personal Integrity for money, but I learned to ignore that, a long time ago. I’m not competitive, and I don’t care about dying with the most toys. I like making stuff that will imp…

Not saying the following is true of you, but the parallels brought it to mind. I (45) was speaking with a friend (50+) this week about job prospects. He's been employed in a particular creative field for his adult life and feels as though he's missed a boat in transferring into management tiers of some sort, while others around him did so. Did he not take the initiative? Did he not impress the right people? No one told him that perhaps he should consider this path. Resentful vibes. There's a very palpable feeling at these ages that you're potentially near-unemployable.

Now, he'd talk about principles and being a craftsman and doing things the right way. I'd say, sure, but I'd quietly wonder if he's procrastinating, being stubborn, being slow, prioritising the wrong things. My own foibles lead me to make similar mistakes, so I assume it's true for many others also.

If you have the means, or a market for attention to detail, then you absolutely can do things your way. Like you implied, you can get a lot of satisfaction out of simple things and meaningful things. But if, like 50+ friend, someone has bills to pay and desperately needs work, at what point are they making excuses when they should be recognising that many employers don't want stubborn employees prioritising what to them are the wrong things.

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#59
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ageism is too much of a thing in tech. These young frontend js developers can't even hold down F2 to enter the BIOS. So much knowledge lost from companies letting decades worth of experience walk out the door. And it shows, so many modern products have shite architecture.

> Ageism is too much of a thing in tech. > These young frontend js developers can't even... I hope you can see the irony in your post.

Not really https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28218225

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#60

Polymath was always an idea that appealed, mainly due to Leonardo da Vinci (check out his drawings of turbulent water). I think the problem is career paths, as though a working life must optimise for linearity to achieve success, when instead those individuals who explore breadth and depth and fun are both most productive and creative. Anyone who can see a problem and potential solution through more than one prism of…

"Polymath" emerged during the Renaissance.

Because that's when there was an inflection point in specialization.

There are many polymaths other than DaVinci.

Like Feynman, he refused to specialize so much as everyone else of his time. And, like Feynman, he was kind of a jerk, so he got his way.

But back to the point: we don't need to be non-linear so much as not overspecialized. What we usually see as "genius" is often expertise in multiple fields and the cross-pollination of ideas from that (Da Vinci and Feynman, for sure!). So I agree with you on that point.

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