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EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

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Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#281

Post by dangus »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #278
idiotsecant wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it is actually going to make things worse, that's what regulation does in most cases. Yes all those regulations that actually make things worse. Which ones are those again? specifically? I find that generally people who make hand-wavey boogeyman 'regulation is bad' arguments typically struggle to identify which regulations are bad and why, and conveniently forget about the thousands of regulations that make their li…

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Cookie regulation is great. If you block the cookie message elements, the websites have to default to necessary cookies only.

Before the regulation, sites would do whatever they wanted if your browser settings weren't set up perfectly.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#282

Post by isametry »

amelius wrote: post #115

Meanwhile WhatsApp installs only on one device (phone OR tablet, not both). You can use the web version, but it sucks on a tablet.

> phone OR tablet

Android tablet, that is. If it's an iPad, you're SOL completely.

Even funnier is that the new native app for macOS [0] (i.e. not using Electron) is made with Catalyst… a tool made for porting iPad apps to macOS.

Somewhere, someone at WhatsApp works on a version of the app for the SOLE PURPOSE of porting it to another platform, while NOT releasing the original. It's completely baffling.

0 – https://wabetainfo.com/whatsapp-native-beta-for-macos-is-now...

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#283

Post by jrm4 »

mattrighetti wrote: post #191
dijit wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] without actually realising that it is actually going to make things worse, that's what regulation does in most cases. Feels like a uniquely american take. Companies that are maliciously compliant are not the norm. Leaving behind that most is an ambiguous enough term that means you could basically discredit anything I come up with, how do you feel about regulations that limit the use of harmful or toxic chemic…

> Regulations are the only tool that society has to prevent companies acting against the social good. The fallacy here is that you don't get to decide what "social good" is, especially in this case. People get to choose what is good for them, we're talking about tech products here. I see regulations in this specific case as something that goes against progress, whatever that means for the company of your favorite mes…

The fallacy HERE is "individual preferences accurately reflect collective good."

Again, there's no clear-cut answer at any given time whether or not "this particular possibly-restrictive regulation is good for everyone." Sometimes it is, sometimes it ain't. That's what you use democracy/government for, to figure these things out.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#284

Post by sdfghswe »

smoldesu wrote: post #212
sdfghswe wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't care about any features, apart from the features you care about. Just like everyone else.

To be fair, that was probably the same opinion you expressed when buying an iPhone. Nobody thinks about the consequences of who they can text when they buy a phone, and why should they?

I never bought an iphone, because it seems to me outrageously overpriced (especially since we know now that it takes 2-3 years until they make it lag on purpose) and I don't like the company anyway.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#285

Post by mort96 »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #278
idiotsecant wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it is actually going to make things worse, that's what regulation does in most cases. Yes all those regulations that actually make things worse. Which ones are those again? specifically? I find that generally people who make hand-wavey boogeyman 'regulation is bad' arguments typically struggle to identify which regulations are bad and why, and conveniently forget about the thousands of regulations that make their li…

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I agree with your criticism of the companies who time and time again decide to utterly destroy their user experience just so that they can spy on people. They should avoid that.

But you didn't respond to the regulations thing.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#286

Post by jodrellblank »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #180
jodrellblank wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twenty two minutes ago you cared about groups, pictures and emojis. Email clients don't do emojis well or groups well, SMS doesn't do any of them, and IIRC Blackberry did everything in one program 15 years ago. Downvoted because this is the comment equivalent of the manager walking into a technical discussion of how something should work and demanding "just make it work" and leaving. Or commenting on a war topic "I j…

Users just want simple direct communications to work (yes, with more features than that, E2EE, image sending, and such; but those features are not the focus). Companies want to get users into a walled-garden where they can target them for financial and political gains. Democracy trying to push things away from the latter seems good. Do you agree?

Apple's walled garden of the app store, no sideload apps, is a way they can profit. What financial or political gain is Apple getting from people using iMessage instead of WhatsApp?

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#287

Post by sdfghswe »

kjreact wrote: post #207
chimeracoder wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't care about any features, apart from the features you care about. Just like everyone else. That's a pretty uncharitable way to interpret the statement, when the three features OP mentioned are a part of literally every modern messaging platform that people use. Not just iMessage and RCS (the open protocol which is the best analog to iMessage), but WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Discord, Messenger, Instagram,…

I similarly interpreted OP as someone who only wants basic features in messaging while the reply implies that not everyone views those three features as the only necessary features. Nothing uncharitable about saying that everyone’s needs are different.

Exactly. For example, I care about pictures and emojis but not groups. And groups crucially is the one thing that (from what I hear) is extremely non-trivial to do well alongside with E2E encryption. So nothing "basic" about it, it turns out.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#288

Post by baby »

idiotsecant wrote: post #276
mattrighetti wrote: post #165

This sounds nice, but when you really think about the consequences it really is not. Isn't this going to kill features that only some apps have or offer? What if one day Signal, Telegram or WhatsApp want to implement something "different" that could make messaging better but this policy is making things harder to implement because it would be impossible to make it interoperate with other messaging apps? I don't get w…

>it is actually going to make things worse, that's what regulation does in most cases. Yes all those regulations that actually make things worse. Which ones are those again? specifically? I find that generally people who make hand-wavey boogeyman 'regulation is bad' arguments typically struggle to identify which regulations are bad and why, and conveniently forget about the thousands of regulations that make their li…

The ones that created cookie popups everywhere. It’s horrible. It’s the worst. Everyone can see how horrible it is. Nobody understands why this is still a thing.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#289

Post by baby »

mort96 wrote: post #285
fnordpiglet wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please accept all cookies to receive your response.

I agree with your criticism of the companies who time and time again decide to utterly destroy their user experience just so that they can spy on people. They should avoid that. But you didn't respond to the regulations thing.

It made browsing the web an inferior experience for all users. Come on. Let’s not continue this charade and just accept a valid argument when you see one

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#290

Post by WithinReason »

mattrighetti wrote: post #165

This sounds nice, but when you really think about the consequences it really is not. Isn't this going to kill features that only some apps have or offer? What if one day Signal, Telegram or WhatsApp want to implement something "different" that could make messaging better but this policy is making things harder to implement because it would be impossible to make it interoperate with other messaging apps? I don't get w…

It's possible to update the HTML standard while the entire world is using it.
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