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EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

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Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#271

Post by User23 »

mattrighetti wrote: post #252
saiya-jin wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, I respectfully disagree, I'm a firm believer that regulations disproportionately hurt Yeah you made the point very clear already in all your other posts, no need to repeat it everywhere. Other point errors in your arguments like this being for 75b corps completely nullifying your core arguments, lets just say most of the forum including me, EU and indeed world doesn't share your view at all. In fact, some hea…

I did not make the case that ALL regulations must be erased to a zero, at all. I do believe that there must be a minimum of regulations that actually make everyone prosper and go along with each other. Unfortunately, regulating messaging so that anyone can have just a single app on their phone for that specific task is beyond unnecessary, but that's just my useless opinion I guess.

Regulation is also used as a euphemism for unelected bureaucrats creating policy with the force of law without real democratic input. Unless you consider the regulator retiring from government to take a seat on the board of a company he or she used to regulate or give $100k paid speeches to same a form of democracy I suppose.

I don't know if that's what it means in the EU, but operationally it's observably what it means in the USA. I will say from a distance it looks like the EU's unelected bureaucrats have even more power than the American ones do.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#272

Post by dghlsakjg »

wildpeaks wrote: post #260
weberer wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Companies that are maliciously compliant are not the norm. How do you explain all these damn GDPR pop ups on every site that make it as difficult as possible to disagree?

On that note, I think the GDPR banner problem won't be solved until the UI is shown at the browser level, just like tracking permission dialogs on mobile: having the same UI for all sites would prevent tricking users into over-complicated form because at least it would be the same form everytime. Right now, too many end users get fatigue fooled into blaming the EU rather than the companies tracking them, whereas on m…

My understanding of GDPR, et. al. is that you don't need consent to use cookies. You need consent to use tracking cookies, third party cookies, and any cookie that isn't essential to the use of the app.

So for me, that reads as anytime I am asked about consent, it is an admission that the site is using my data/adding cookies in a way that is unnecessary and invasive. Automatically decline!

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#273

Post by phendrenad2 »

jjulius wrote: post #179
mattrighetti wrote: post #165

This sounds nice, but when you really think about the consequences it really is not. Isn't this going to kill features that only some apps have or offer? What if one day Signal, Telegram or WhatsApp want to implement something "different" that could make messaging better but this policy is making things harder to implement because it would be impossible to make it interoperate with other messaging apps? I don't get w…

>Isn't this going to kill features that only some apps have or offer? What if one day Signal, Telegram or WhatsApp... Okay, this is where I think we need to make clear who this requirement applies to. If we click through the first link, found in the first sentence in the article, to the actual source text[0] and run it through Google Translate, we can find that this requirement only applies to companies... >... whose…

I can't wait to forever jump from app to app because as soon as one company exceeds 7.5 billion euros, it'll get struck by this new set of laws that makes its entire business model impossible. Of course, that's assuming that the EU doesn't expand this when they notice that happening...

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#274

Post by dncornholio »

namdnay wrote: post #130
dncornholio wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering what the people who say that no sideloading is a feature have to say now.

What Id say is that today anyone who wants to sell a “smart” product has to write a proper clean iOS app that gets reviewed. Tomorrow I can guarantee they will immediately cut costs and ship out piles of sideloaded garbage Sure, it’s up to the consumer to choose, but they’re not going to write that on the package

Nobody is going to ship their commercial apps outside the app store, because else nobody would be able to find their app.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#275

Post by scarface74 »

adam_arthur wrote: post #195
scarface74 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has plenty of competition for their product that includes an App Store . If you don’t like their product, you’re free to get an Android device like 85% of the rest of the world and 2/3rd of the EU.

The nuance of anti-competitiveness through bundling or the merits of competition at more granular levels appears lost to you. If products have to compete on their own merits, rather than leaning on other aspects of a larger bundle, then software and products get better for all of society. For example, if you were allowed to install any car OS you wanted, rather than forced to use the manufacturers, car OSes would imp…

No one wants you to be able to install any CarOS. What you can have on a car info system is strictly regulated for safety reasons. For instance you can’t have video showing where the driver can see it while driving. On my old car with Ford Sync, you couldn’t even pair a phone with your radio while the car was running.

A “product” is a combination of software and hardware.

My opinion is that both Windows is worse than Macs and Android is worse than iPhones because they aren’t an integrated product.

It’s the same with game consoles.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#276

Post by idiotsecant »

mattrighetti wrote: post #165

This sounds nice, but when you really think about the consequences it really is not. Isn't this going to kill features that only some apps have or offer? What if one day Signal, Telegram or WhatsApp want to implement something "different" that could make messaging better but this policy is making things harder to implement because it would be impossible to make it interoperate with other messaging apps? I don't get w…

>it is actually going to make things worse, that's what regulation does in most cases.

Yes all those regulations that actually make things worse.

Which ones are those again? specifically?

I find that generally people who make hand-wavey boogeyman 'regulation is bad' arguments typically struggle to identify which regulations are bad and why, and conveniently forget about the thousands of regulations that make their life livable every day.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#277

Post by dghlsakjg »

owlbite wrote: post #190
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of features would prevent a client from receiving a text-based message? XMPP used to work across platforms but commercial interests killed it. Surely, messaging clients can publish a protocol and provide a reference library for others to use to directly contact users on their platforms?

Well looking at Apple's more recent features for iMessage, Animoji and Memoji related features are presumably non-trivial to slap into an existing app.

Why, is that true?

They interoperate fine with older iPhones, Macs and iPads that don't have those features.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#278

Post by fnordpiglet »

idiotsecant wrote: post #276
mattrighetti wrote: post #165

This sounds nice, but when you really think about the consequences it really is not. Isn't this going to kill features that only some apps have or offer? What if one day Signal, Telegram or WhatsApp want to implement something "different" that could make messaging better but this policy is making things harder to implement because it would be impossible to make it interoperate with other messaging apps? I don't get w…

>it is actually going to make things worse, that's what regulation does in most cases. Yes all those regulations that actually make things worse. Which ones are those again? specifically? I find that generally people who make hand-wavey boogeyman 'regulation is bad' arguments typically struggle to identify which regulations are bad and why, and conveniently forget about the thousands of regulations that make their li…

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Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#279

Post by SllX »

sofixa wrote: post #236
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live 10,000km away from the US and can confirm that I get more spam on androids than when using iMessage. It wasn’t the main reason I switched back to iOS with my newest phone but it was a reason.

Maybe it depends on the Android vendor, but my OnePlus' "Messages" (the SMS app) automatically blocks a lot of spam messages automatically and it's quite good at it. On the contrary I have friends with iPhones who get spam/phishing messages.

Via SMS like everyone else with a mobile phone here, and especially around election dates. Apple’s done a few things recently to mitigate this and last election I reported a lot of phone numbers for spam to my carrier using a mechanism Apple built-in; so we’ll see if it starts to make a difference within a couple of years time.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#280

Post by scarface74 »

kyboren wrote: post #261
scarface74 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has plenty of competition for their product that includes an App Store . If you don’t like their product, you’re free to get an Android device like 85% of the rest of the world and 2/3rd of the EU.

GlobalSuperMegaCorp has plenty of competition for their company town that includes a grocery store . If you don't like their company town, you're free to move to another town like 85% of the rest of the world. Oh and BTW there are only two countries in the world, one of them is entirely comprised of GlobalSuperMegaCorp's monolith city-state company town, and the other is entirely comprised of company towns run by fra…

Yes because the level of effort to choose a different phone is equivalent to moving to a different city…

85% of the worlds population uses an Android. They made a different choice, why can’t you?

There are over a billion people in China that don’t use Google’s Android. And there are phones for geeks that don’t use Google’s Android.

The other 85% are using phones that allow them to escape the “wall garden”.

It’s like complaining that you locked yourself in a room and threw away the key.

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