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A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

nytimes.com

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Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#131

Post by twawaaay »

scns wrote: post #69
js2 wrote: post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

> speed up a bit on the downhills That is bad for your knees. [edit] I highly recommend the book Born to Run by Cristopher McDougall.

It is only bad for your knees if you don't know how to run downhills and don't train for it.

Running injuries come from overload or overuse (or bad health). Both causes can be prevented by being conscious of what causes overload and overuse and then training in a way that will prevent it.

If all you ever do is run flat asphalt and then you suddenly decide to run hills then yes, the downhill can be bad for your knees -- but that's just because you stupidly decided to introduce a new load your joints and tendons are not adapted to.

Same happens whenever you change technique or have some kind of imbalance -- your body will adjust by moving loads from one place to another but your brain may not be smart enough to realise the new place may not have had enough time to adjust to it.

Anybody can write a book, I guess. But don't take any running books as gospel. Nobody really understands everything about running (well... maybe Phil Maffetone does).

I run with severed ACL in one of my knees and so out of necessity I have to be much more knowledgeable to be able to keep running safely and keep my legs in good shape.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#132

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

boppo1 wrote: post #102
js2 wrote: post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

Besides proper weight training, have you gotten help with your running style? As a purely knee-saving exercise, I learned some POSE running. Let’s be clear, I do not run long distance nor do I ever want to. The single longest distance I have run is 10K. This was purely to stop heel striking because that was giving me problems.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#133

Post by Eupraxias »

bookofjoe wrote: post #124
boppo1 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

>Running Does Not Increase Symptoms or Structural Progression in People with Knee Osteoarthritis: Data from the Osteoarthritis Initiative https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6095814/ >History of Running is Not Associated with Higher Risk of Symptomatic Knee Osteoarthritis: A Cross-Sectional Study from the Osteoarthritis Initiative https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5179322/ >Running does not lead t…

This is dangerous. My friend blew out his knee pushing too hard with trailrunning, and now he can never run again.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#134

Post by haspok »

infamousclyde wrote: post #112
haspok wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As you know, carbs are precisely we need when going the distance. This is completely false. You deplete your carb stores after a few hours (depending on pace etc), and then YOU ARE RUNNING ON KETONES, whether you like it or not. You physically cannot eat and digest enough carbs to sustain your pace for any longer period of time. Carb depletion can be a real shock for the first time. What happens is that your body i…

> Unless you are a pro athlete (in which case you have your own dietician anyway) Why not train like a professional athlete and just eat a balanced diet, like their dieticians recommend? My partner has represented my country in the Olympics in a long distance track event and none of her support staff have ever advocated for keto as a responsible diet for her training needs. I mean, the science says fat is less energy…

> Why not train like a professional athlete and just eat a balanced diet...

Because professional athletes are anything but "balanced". Professional sport is about abusing your body as much as you can possibly get away with, and then some more. For a normal person following a pro's training plans or diet could be the worst thing they could do to their body.

> science says fat is less energy-available than a simple source of carbohydrates

Yes, keto is not a panacea. If you do keto, you will most probably not be the fastest you can be. But you will be unstoppable. If you do carbs, your peak performance should be higher, but for a shorter time. Choose one.

I think what pros (eg. pro cyclists) do is that they try to find the best of both worlds - they train a LOT in lower intensity zones so they get very good at fat burning without actually reaching keto, but they then supplement it with the right type and amount of carbs during races so that they don't lose sprint power. But this is only my theory, I have never been a pro, and never been close to these circles.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#135

Post by kunalgupta »

boppo1 wrote: post #102
js2 wrote: post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

I have run 30-40 miles per week since I was 15 to the age of 40 so far. The period I have injuries are correlated to the times I am not also training kung fu. Since kung fu involved a lot of deep stretching and yoga like stuff, I think the trick to running is probably just to also make sure to practice yoga seriously and you’ll be good

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#136

Post by myself248 »

A funny headline, given that I was just reading up on the history of the "Black Ghost", a nickname given by other racers to a muscle-car which would dominate Detroit street races in the 70s, but never hung around to socialize. The car would just show up, win, and disappear, sometimes for weeks or months, before surfacing again to win, and again to vanish. Nobody knew the driver, nobody could get a look at him, and he was trying very hard to keep it that way.

This blew my mind, as I'd heard about this car in the 90s from a car-nut uncle, during the time when nobody knew the story, just that the car had stopped showing up in the mid-70s and nobody had ever seen it again.

Only in 2014 did the owner reveal his secret. Ultimately his reason for laying low is much more lurid than simply being a pacer like today's clickbait headline.

(Ur jnf n pbc ol qnl, fgerrg-enpre ol avtug.)

https://www.dodgegarage.com/news/article/owners-clubs/2022/1...

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#137

Post by nradov »

Eupraxias wrote: post #133
bookofjoe wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Running Does Not Increase Symptoms or Structural Progression in People with Knee Osteoarthritis: Data from the Osteoarthritis Initiative https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6095814/ >History of Running is Not Associated with Higher Risk of Symptomatic Knee Osteoarthritis: A Cross-Sectional Study from the Osteoarthritis Initiative https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5179322/ >Running does not lead t…

This is dangerous. My friend blew out his knee pushing too hard with trailrunning, and now he can never run again.

If you fall due to tripping over a rock or something then of course you can damage your knee. The point is that running a lot won't necessarily wear your knees out.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#138

Post by banDeveloper »

haspok wrote: post #97
kashyapc wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, "stop eating carbs 2 months before" sounds like bad advice that needs a lot of heavy caveats. As you know, carbs are precisely we need when going the distance. I know long-time runners who even eat pasta for breakfast before a half-marathon! I'm ~64KG and 180cm tall. And I feel light when running; I have almost zero excess fat. If I reduce more weight, it would be unhealthy. As it is, I could be called (healthy)…

> As you know, carbs are precisely we need when going the distance. This is completely false. You deplete your carb stores after a few hours (depending on pace etc), and then YOU ARE RUNNING ON KETONES, whether you like it or not. You physically cannot eat and digest enough carbs to sustain your pace for any longer period of time. Carb depletion can be a real shock for the first time. What happens is that your body i…

> You deplete your carb stores after a few hours (depending on pace etc), and then YOU ARE RUNNING ON KETONES, whether you like it or not. You physically cannot eat and digest enough carbs to sustain your pace for any longer period of time.

What do you mean, this is precisely why all professional runners and cyclists consume gels. Not only is it possible to not deplete your carb stores, it's actually pretty easy to keep them from depleting.

> What happens is that your body is not accustomed to burning fat for energy, and so it just doesn't know what to do.

Vast majority of professional cyclists and runners spend majority of their time training in low-instensity zones, where fats are the main source of energy. How then, would they not be accustomed to burning fat for energy?

That's not what happens anyway, the "bonk" is because your body was relying on turning carbs into energy, but the carb stores have depleted. If you try to keep the same effort, your body will be unable to provide sufficient energy to keep you going and you will "bonk". If you were to lower your effort enough for fats to be able to provide sufficient energy, you'd be fine. Anyway, the solution is to consume more carbs, to keep the stores from depleting and no to remove that fuel source entirely.

> Yes, your sprints will be slower, but in exchange you will simply not be hungry, or feel loss of energy.

Sure you won't feel a loss of energy, because you've never had that energy in the first place. I don't understand why you would remove a major fuel source entirely, is there any science behind this?

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#139

Post by axlee »

myself248 wrote: post #136

A funny headline, given that I was just reading up on the history of the "Black Ghost", a nickname given by other racers to a muscle-car which would dominate Detroit street races in the 70s, but never hung around to socialize. The car would just show up, win, and disappear, sometimes for weeks or months, before surfacing again to win, and again to vanish. Nobody knew the driver, nobody could get a look at him, and he…

rot13 for the curious

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#140

Post by BurningFrog »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #121
boppo1 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

Aside from the other comments / suggestions...check your diet. It's possible you're eating something(s) that triggers inflammation; and when your running that inflammation manifests as pain in your knees.

OK, but how would I check for that?

I mean, how do I know if it's the bacon, the coffee, or the cheese, etc?

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