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A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

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Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#111

Post by haspok »

wartijn_ wrote: post #103
haspok wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As you know, carbs are precisely we need when going the distance. This is completely false. You deplete your carb stores after a few hours (depending on pace etc), and then YOU ARE RUNNING ON KETONES, whether you like it or not. You physically cannot eat and digest enough carbs to sustain your pace for any longer period of time. Carb depletion can be a real shock for the first time. What happens is that your body i…

> This is completely false No it isn't. The comment to stop eating carbs was aimed at someone who is trying to do a half marathon in less that 2 hours. Like you say yourself this is way to short to deplete your carbs, so to just stop eating carbs seems like exactly the "bad advice that needs a lot of heavy caveats" that the parent poster was talking about.

There are other reasons for going keto even for a half-marathon - and who knows, maybe the full distance is next.

You don't have to worry about timing your meals, or "carb-loading" which is misunderstood and yet done by so many beginners just because they read about it and they disrupt / overload their digestive system, and causes more problems than has benefits (if any - guess how I know that).

I cannot really explain the feeling of not feeling exhausted after a few hours of "exercise" to someone who has not experienced it. Yes, your muscles are sore, yes you are thirsty (an unwanted side-effect of keto - you need to manage hydration!), yet your head is clear, your mind is fresh and you are ready to pounce. You feel like Duracell Bunny.

Is your experience different? I'd be happy to hear about it - maybe it doesn't work so well for everyone?

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#112

Post by infamousclyde »

haspok wrote: post #97
kashyapc wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, "stop eating carbs 2 months before" sounds like bad advice that needs a lot of heavy caveats. As you know, carbs are precisely we need when going the distance. I know long-time runners who even eat pasta for breakfast before a half-marathon! I'm ~64KG and 180cm tall. And I feel light when running; I have almost zero excess fat. If I reduce more weight, it would be unhealthy. As it is, I could be called (healthy)…

> As you know, carbs are precisely we need when going the distance. This is completely false. You deplete your carb stores after a few hours (depending on pace etc), and then YOU ARE RUNNING ON KETONES, whether you like it or not. You physically cannot eat and digest enough carbs to sustain your pace for any longer period of time. Carb depletion can be a real shock for the first time. What happens is that your body i…

> Unless you are a pro athlete (in which case you have your own dietician anyway)

Why not train like a professional athlete and just eat a balanced diet, like their dieticians recommend? My partner has represented my country in the Olympics in a long distance track event and none of her support staff have ever advocated for keto as a responsible diet for her training needs.

I mean, the science says fat is less energy-available than a simple source of carbohydrates. It seems like a pretty easy choice if you want to hit target speeds during your workouts and become faster over time.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#113

Post by abalashov »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #84
dharmab wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was once motorcycle touring in the Wyoming/Utah/Colorado area with a friend who was riding an old, carbureted Suzuki dual sport that struggled with power at altitude. We found we could significantly increase its top speed and fuel range by drafting it off the "bubble" created by my bike's panniers. Inside the bubble was like the eye of a storm.

When I commuted by bicycle in London in my 20s I would often draft behind double decker buses. Not terribly sensible, for various reasons including their exhaust, but very effective. And with a profile that big you don't need to be very close to get a good effect.

Ha! Yeah, in lower-speed city environments, you'll sometimes see cyclists take off behind a slow-moving semi or something else risky for that reason. And every once in a blue moon you'll get a motorist in the middle of nowhere who "gets it" and motor-paces you up to a good speed before rolling away. That's taking one for the team. But as you say, it's all a bit perilous.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#114

Post by emptyfile »

boppo1 wrote: post #102
js2 wrote: post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

Well the glaring omission is that you apparently don't do any knee strengthening exercises even though your knees hurt?

How do you expect to have strong knees without squats, lunges, etc? It's like saying you're bad at math and expect to magically get better at it, without actually practising math.

Even doing a few sets of squats every day is better then nothing, and for some reason most newbie runners think they can do nothing, with zero sports background, and still run every other day.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#115

Post by is_true »

infamousclyde wrote: post #80
pg314 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is bad for your knees. [Citation needed] I wouldn't recommend speeding up on the downhills for beginning runners. But if you're well conditioned, running slightly faster on the downhills in a relaxed way won't hurt your knees. It all depends on the slope of course. On very steep hills, it simply isn't be possible to run fast downhill. > I highly recommend the book Born to Run by Cristopher McDougall. It's an e…

Yeah, I've read Born to Run too. I think it's pretty naive to deduce that the modern shoe industry is responsible for joint/tendon issues. Frankly, more pros would be wearing minimalist footwear if it was the cure-all as written. To be clear, if the minimalist footwear trend works for someone, that's great for them. But if you played the game of "I spy" for minimalist footwear at any professional meet with distance r…

I usually go trough a couple of running shoes a year and I think adjusting the insole correctly the first times you use it is key.

I try to place the insole in a way that avoids vibrations when hitting the surface and the ankle to work at a correct angle.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#116

Post by chollida1 »

boppo1 wrote: post #102
js2 wrote: post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

When I was 35 and younger I could run no matter what i did to my body.

Now that I'm in my 40's I find if I get knee pain, its almost certainly tight muscles around the knee.

That means I haven't' been stretching, drinking water, foam rolling or squatting and deadlifting enough. As you get older I find almost all ailments are a sign of not taking care of your body, not a sign of age related decay.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#117

Post by patchorang »

felipemnoa wrote: post #107
mclouts91 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old myth that running is bad for your knees. It isn’t unless you have a condition. What you may not have is tendons ready for the effort or the right supporting muscles. These can be worked on.

Go on, don't leave us hanging. Any suggestions on a workout to strengthen the muscles?

I’ve found Vlad Xcel to have really good videos for this. For example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=meeZydx-vhU

This is paid but also very good. https://uphillathlete.com/product/at-home-strength-training-...

The main thing 90% of people will benefit from is learning to activate their glutes, then strengthening their glutes. Clamshells are a great place to start.

A lot of people hurt their knees because their glutes don’t activate and are weak from sitting all day. This forces them to become quad dominate, which puts more strain on the knees.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#118

Post by bank6062 »

boppo1 wrote: post #102
js2 wrote: post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

I had knee pains when running only on the roads. It was due to weak muscles to support it.

Switched to trail running and it's been a life saver. It's a lot easier pace, but the hills/mountains really help stabilize the glutes and core. I'm running longer/further and still close to my 5k times from being a road runner

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#119

Post by kashyapc »

haspok wrote: post #97
kashyapc wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, "stop eating carbs 2 months before" sounds like bad advice that needs a lot of heavy caveats. As you know, carbs are precisely we need when going the distance. I know long-time runners who even eat pasta for breakfast before a half-marathon! I'm ~64KG and 180cm tall. And I feel light when running; I have almost zero excess fat. If I reduce more weight, it would be unhealthy. As it is, I could be called (healthy)…

> As you know, carbs are precisely we need when going the distance. This is completely false. You deplete your carb stores after a few hours (depending on pace etc), and then YOU ARE RUNNING ON KETONES, whether you like it or not. You physically cannot eat and digest enough carbs to sustain your pace for any longer period of time. Carb depletion can be a real shock for the first time. What happens is that your body i…

There is so much misleading "advice" in the above comment that it's not even worth refuting. I just want to warn to others lurking here to be cautious with it.

From the little I know (which is nothing!), going the "keto" route needs a specialist advice[1]. Diet is a charged topic; it would do us good to stay grounded. It's tempting to dole out uninformed advice on the internet. Please resist.

The point you raised at the end is more sensible: people might want to (responsibly and carefully!) try things and see what works for their bodies.

PS: In the past, I wrote here[2] the training routine that worked for me. It also has a link to a "retro" of my previous half-m.

[1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/should-you-tr...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33607869

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#120

Post by bongoman37 »

darth_avocado wrote: post #58
jcrites wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(An inference based on context. I don’t know anything about this activity.) Because they’re not actually running the race; they’re staff for the event paid to run part of it at a set pace. “Finishing”, especially in a top spot, would take the spotlight away from the actual winning participants. It would be inappropriate for non-competing event staff to take away the spotlight from the competitors. It would be equally…

Marathon pacers could be event staff, but could also be private for a runner if it’s one of the elite marathons that make you a lot of money.

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