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A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

nytimes.com

121–130 of 203 posts

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#121
post #102
post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

Aside from the other comments / suggestions...check your diet. It's possible you're eating something(s) that triggers inflammation; and when your running that inflammation manifests as pain in your knees.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#122
post #102
post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

Genetics play a role, but it can be done with very, very gradual increments in weekly mileage, perhaps over the course of years. The "add no more that 10% rule per week" is even too aggressive over the long run. You have to give your legs time to adjust to higher mileages.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#123
post #7

It does seem kind of cheap to rely on a pacer, I can see how purists lament it as "not real racing". It eliminates an entire dimension from the competition: managing oneself and being aware / humble enough to not push unsustainably hard at the start only to run out of juice later on. Using a pacer essentially reduces the race to an artless treadmill grind. As an observer, the paced portion of the race is stupidly bor…

It would be interesting to have an Olympics where every race each runner runs the race alone

Skiing often uses interval start. That means racers are released every 30 seconds. Passing could have some effect, but still it is mostly then individual run.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#124
post #102
post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

>Running Does Not Increase Symptoms or Structural Progression in People with Knee Osteoarthritis: Data from the Osteoarthritis Initiative

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6095814/

>History of Running is Not Associated with Higher Risk of Symptomatic Knee Osteoarthritis: A Cross-Sectional Study from the Osteoarthritis Initiative

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5179322/

>Running does not lead to knee osteoarthritis, may protect people from developing disease, experts say

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141116094058.h...

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#125
post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

But how do the pacers keep pace?

At an elite event there are LEDs along the inside of the track that are set to pace at world record pace or what ever pace the meet chooses. The rabbit can pace off the LEDs, or at some interval to the LEDs. Recently there may be multiple paces set by the LEDs.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#126
post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

I went along as handler for a friend at a couple of Old Dominion 100s in the 1980s. The then course took the runners over Massanutten Mountain somewhere around 80 or 85 miles in, and the one year runner could be accompanied for the last 25 miles, the other year for the last 33. The first year I didn't need to accompany for my friend dropped out because of the brutally hot weather. The later year, I split the companion duties with my brother.

The thing about ultra-distance races is that the exhaustion can affect the judgment, and the runner and the race are better off having somebody with judgment unimpaired along.

Edit: I should add that the course took runners over Massanutten Mountain in the dark. Perhaps the real beasts managed it in daylight, but it was a nighttime leg for lot of good solid runners who were going to get the belt for finishing under 24 hours.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#127
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, "stop eating carbs 2 months before" sounds like bad advice that needs a lot of heavy caveats. As you know, carbs are precisely we need when going the distance. I know long-time runners who even eat pasta for breakfast before a half-marathon! I'm ~64KG and 180cm tall. And I feel light when running; I have almost zero excess fat. If I reduce more weight, it would be unhealthy. As it is, I could be called (healthy)…

> As you know, carbs are precisely we need when going the distance. This is completely false. You deplete your carb stores after a few hours (depending on pace etc), and then YOU ARE RUNNING ON KETONES, whether you like it or not. You physically cannot eat and digest enough carbs to sustain your pace for any longer period of time. Carb depletion can be a real shock for the first time. What happens is that your body i…

I want to back this up!

For a while I was carb-reliant, would bring fruit with me to my workouts, felt like I couldn't do more than 30 min of hard effort without fueling.

Made a conscious effort to "go keto", ate more protein and fat, was hungry for 1.5 weeks, but a switch flipped and I can pretty much go forever now. I'm not strict about it anymore, but it definitely unlocked something for me.

I think my sense of exhaustion was coupled with the amount of easy sugar from carbs in my body.. taking the carbs away for a bit broke that dependency.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#128
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

When I was 35 and younger I could run no matter what i did to my body. Now that I'm in my 40's I find if I get knee pain, its almost certainly tight muscles around the knee. That means I haven't' been stretching, drinking water, foam rolling or squatting and deadlifting enough. As you get older I find almost all ailments are a sign of not taking care of your body, not a sign of age related decay.

Having to be more and more careful about taking care of your body is the age related factor here.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#129
post #102
post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

How do these runners knees not succumb to problems? Genetic lottery? I run 6 miles on a treadmill with zero drop & pronation inserts, stretch withe a calf wedge & still feel like I'm flying close to the sun with my knees.

I'm 38 and run about 80km a week on average and have run since I was 12 years old. Humans are built for running! Any notion that running is bad for the average person is nonsense (clearly if you have some known underlying issue which may prevent running, e.g. one leg longer than the other, then it's best to avoid running)... Anyway, the key to not screwing up your knees, getting shin splints, IT band syndrome, or whatever else chronic injury is:

0. Unless you've been running for a long time or done some other endurance sport, your aerobic system is probably in terrible shape. Even if you are already a runner, it's likely your aerobic system is still in terrible shape. If your pace zones don't match up with your heart rate zones, e.g. you are out of breath no matter how heard you run and your HR shoots up the moment you start running then you need to improve your aerobic system. If you are stressing yourself on every run then you have a much higher chance of injury. On most of my runs I go 1. Make sure your form is good. The main things are: 1) don't overstride. If you overstride, you'll land on your heel instead of mid/fore foot and put quite a bit of stress through your legs. Instead, increase cadance and lower stride length so you are landing mid foot. 2) You see a lot of people running with their ass sticking out, which pulls centre of gravity backwards and makes running much more difficult - overstresses quads, shins and knees. Your centre of gravity should be directly over the foot in the stance phase. Try to make sure hips are forward and level. There's tonnes of stuff on the internet about running form. I think you can get most of the way there by increasing cadence and shortening stride. Running should feel like you are gliding over the road... People walking should be surprised when you beast it past them at 5 minute mile pace because your feet hardly make any noise when they touch the ground.

2. Make sure that all your muscles groups are strong and balanced, in pcarticular the glutes. Most people have weak glutes, specifically the glute medius, which will cause the knee to bend inwards when running, resulting in quite a bit of pain as it compresses the knee on one side and stretches it on the other. Many runners think strength isn't relevant for running but it really is. You need to keep on top of it and do strengthening exercises at least a few times a week. There's tonnes of blogs on the web which teach you the kinds of exercises you need to do. E.g. side leg raises, clam shells, squats, single leg dead lifts, glute bridge, marching bridge...

3. Recover properly. Any "tightness" after a run is probably because you've overworked some muscle group. Learn how to do self massage and maybe use a theragun or similar device. Cold therapy also helps. Try to sleep well (no alcohol before bed, no food three hours before bed, no caffeine in afternoon) and if you don't feel great or are ill then either don't run or do only active recovery that day. From experience you are way more likely to injure yourself on a day where you don't feel great.

4. Whenever you are going to do a hard session, warm up properly with some light aerobic exercise and mobility exercises. You want to make sure all the main muscle groups are activated and ready to go before you run. On slow days this is less of an issue. A hard session is anything above Z2. Always run at least 5 minutes in Z1 before starting any run. Alsways do at least 5 minutes in Z1 at the end of a run.

5. Diet. Don't eat refined carbs or any sugars. Focus on a high fat diet and only eat cars when you need to fuel before a hard session or race.

6. Up training distance gradually. Track things like resting heart rate at night or HRV to check whether you are over-doing it or not. Gut feel for this is probably more useful though. If you feel exhausted or you get pain then cut back on running and do more strength exercises.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#130
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was once motorcycle touring in the Wyoming/Utah/Colorado area with a friend who was riding an old, carbureted Suzuki dual sport that struggled with power at altitude. We found we could significantly increase its top speed and fuel range by drafting it off the "bubble" created by my bike's panniers. Inside the bubble was like the eye of a storm.

When I commuted by bicycle in London in my 20s I would often draft behind double decker buses. Not terribly sensible, for various reasons including their exhaust, but very effective. And with a profile that big you don't need to be very close to get a good effect.

I ride my bike as a main form of transportation, and I want electric buses so bad, just to draft them without the fumes.
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