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Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

wsj.com

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Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#871

Post by sofixa »

himinlomax wrote: post #862
xwolfi wrote: post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im in China myself and I dont mind if it's a lab leak, better than saying we re degenerate Pangolin eaters :D However, it's hard to be too trusting of the US, I want to believe them but they just shot 3 balloons in hysterical panic that were just their own weather balloons just because we sent 1... so sometimes they seem to be wrong and we should keep an open mind. The best would be that a bat shat on a pangolin a la…

> However, it's hard to be too trusting of the US The question is not whether to trust the US [government] in absolute terms, the question is whether the democratically elected US government that is bound by the rule of law, strong institutions providing checks and balances and the Freedom of Information Act can be trusted more than the autocratic Chinese communist party that is accountable to absolutely no one.

> The question is not whether to trust the US [government] in absolute terms, the question is whether the democratically elected US government that is bound by the rule of law, strong institutions providing checks and balances and the Freedom of Information Act can be trusted

No. Where were checks and balances when a coup attempt happened? Or before that, when a sitting US president committed multiple crimes, including influence peddling, and got away with it? Or when Guantanamo was established and random people were kidnapped and tortured because of their name or watch? Or when the US president decided to murder a US citizen without due process? Or when it was decided to implement dragnet surveillance of the whole Internet? Or when it was decided to spy on allies? Just because we later learned about some of those transgressions doesn't in any way make the US government and it's various entities trustworthy. Yes, it's better than the authoritarian regime in China, sure, but that doesn't equal actual trust.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#872

Post by sofixa »

orlp wrote: post #281
kranke155 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t the FBI also have a large biological analysis team? For bio terror ?

I think if anything COVID has shown us that biological warfare makes as much sense as nuclear: none. In our globally connected world it's mutually assured destruction, and that's without even the need for your enemy to maintain stockpiles of weapons. The virus will find itself within your own borders soon enough.

> The virus will find itself within your own borders soon enough.

Depends on the virus - something with the long incubating periods and frequent lack of symptoms like Covid yes, but something much more quick and deadly (say, Ebola, even though 2-21 days is still potentially slow) could result in quick mass deaths without the opportunity to spread it around.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#873

Post by johnthewise »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #431
dqpb wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who are owed an apology are the people who did nothing more than to believe that the wuhan coronavirus outbreak originated from the wuhan coronavirus research lab.

That was situated in a region known for coronaviruses

in which an evidence for zootipic origin couldn't be found.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#874

Post by recuter »

Tokkemon wrote: post #830
walkhour wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naming something by its origin it's not racist. The tone you're talking about is a completely subjective statement, and it has no place in a serious discussion. Using that name should've never been controversial and making it controversial was creating drama where there was none. The fact that people are still hurt about Trump saying that years ago shows how unprepared we are to have a discussion about anything.

He also used "Kung Flu." Come on, anyone with a brainstem could see he was promoting anti-Asian sentiment and did nothing to denounce anti-Asian hate crimes at home.

Kung Flu is funny and catchy. Anyone with a brainstem can see you have an anti-humor sentiment.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#875

Post by selfmodruntime »

actually_a_dog wrote: post #428
mwbajor wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the mental gymnastics to discredit the lab leak hypothesis. The fact that the lab and epicenter of the virus are in the same geographic area make it the likely scenario and warrants the most investigation. The efforts to look past this seem artificial.

You don't need to "discredit" the hypothesis very much, because it shouldn't have any real "credit" to begin with. The only evidence for it at all seems to be the proximity of the Wuhan lab to the first known outbreak, plus the fact that 3 researchers got sick in November ( i.e. flu season) with some unknown virus. If you ask me, that plus $5 might buy you a cup of coffee.

So you discredit an incredibly likely theory that a rapidly spreading epidemic from an origin city in a totalitarian state with a highly specific lab focusing on coronaviruses, based on lack of credit?

I don‘t know what to say.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#876

Post by PortleyFool »

Almost all of you were wrong about this, and almost none of you can admit it. I hope many of you will take this opportunity to ask yourself what other stories you’ve taken from the press that have left you misinformed or lied to. The conspiracy theorist, aka skeptics, followed a simple formula, question everything. The NPC’s followed another, trust the experts. Many of you write like experts on this forum. You should know better than most that title is baseless.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#877

Post by areyousure »

yellowapple wrote: post #827
bradleyjg wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where’s your comment from two years ago belittling the wet market theory as shitty? This whole saga is a damning indictment of: science journalism, government agencies’ public engagement, scientists’ public engagement, and the critical reasoning skills of middlebrow audiences.

Were any of these "theories" (they're hypotheses, at best) ever mutually exclusive? It seems entirely possible - and maybe even probable - that SARS-CoV-2: - Originally evolved in the wild to at least some extent - Was being studied in a lab and escaped - Found its way into a wet market near said lab

Your example chain of events would be called "lab leak".

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#879

Post by MichaelZuo »

Teever wrote: post #853
MichaelZuo wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by 'animal reservoir' you mean the intermediary pangolin, or something similar, this 'reservoir' could be as small as 1 animal if it was a spontaneous mutation. Where do you get the idea that there must be a large population of such animals roaming around?

Wasn't the intermediate pangolin idea also discredited as exceedingly improbable relatively early in the pandemic?

Can you link to a source?

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#880

Post by MrMan »

landemva wrote: post #772
wkat4242 wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt this. The pandemic was bad for the whole world, not just China. I'm sure it was an accident.

Bad for whom? Some billionaires reportedly believe in the discredited Malthusian population problem.

I believe in it - not that population itself is a problem but that we have exceeded the carrying capacity of the planet
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