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One Year into the War in Ukraine

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Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#181

Post by yucky »

int_19h wrote: post #180
yucky wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, the US has invaded more countries in the last 50 years than the rest of the world combined and it's always based on lies and/or ulterior motives. So we have zero credibility on this. At this point, if you don't instinctively assume our CIA/State Dept are actively working to undermine other nations then you haven't been paying attention. Why should we ever trust anything they say or do? Because Putin i…

As it happens, I am still a Russian citizen, so you might consider that your perspective about "why do we ever trust those guys when they always lied to us" is equally applicable from the other end. I don't need to listen to Biden to tell me that Putin is a dick; I lived under him for a decade, and still have family and friends who do. As far as comparisons go, US did a lot of shitty things internationally in the pas…

We have economically & culturally annexed huge swaths of the world. When nations push back, we bomb them into submission.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#182

Post by leereeves »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #178
leereeves wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The separatists are under Russian control. I think this dehumanizes them. They chose to become part of Russia and the fact that they have mostly become part of Russia doesn't erase that choice. > In the 1991 referendum... A lot has happened since 1991. Don't you agree that a poll from 2021 is more relevant now? > First point, why such stark difference? An obvious explanation would be that only the areas where enoug…

> A lot has happened since 1991. Don't you agree that a poll from 2021 is more relevant now? What 2021 poll is that? I am aware of the ones in 2014 and the one in 2022, both of which could be described as meaningless Russian shams, and totally irrelevant . 2014 sham: https://www.thebulwark.com/what-really-happened-in-ukraine-i... 2022 sham: https://www.voanews.com/a/voting-ending-in-sham-annexation-p...

The poll I linked just a couple posts up, by the Washington Post.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#183

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

leereeves wrote: post #182
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot has happened since 1991. Don't you agree that a poll from 2021 is more relevant now? What 2021 poll is that? I am aware of the ones in 2014 and the one in 2022, both of which could be described as meaningless Russian shams, and totally irrelevant . 2014 sham: https://www.thebulwark.com/what-really-happened-in-ukraine-i... 2022 sham: https://www.voanews.com/a/voting-ending-in-sham-annexation-p...

The poll I linked just a couple posts up, by the Washington Post.

This one? https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/02/12/new-surve...

Paywalled, described as a "survey" in the headline, so not actually a poll. Why pick that specific one?

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#184

Post by miguelazo »

wonderwonder wrote: post #179
miguelazo wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That “battalion” is literally the #2 reason Russia invaded. And if you want to read about the peace deals that were undermined look them up . You can start with the most prominent one where the US sent its British errand boy Boris Johnson to handle it. PS: I really love the minimization of NAZIS as just a “political orientation”.

lol, Dmitry Utkin is one of the military founders of the Wagner group and is covered in nazi tattoos. Russians invaded Ukraine to stop the nazis and brought along their own? There are many examples of Nazis fighting for Russia. Come on man, I refuse to believe that you think Russia invaded Ukraine because of Nazis. No way you would fall to that sort of propaganda. Right...? Again, can you show me the videos of Zelens…

Are there a few bad apples in the Wagner group? Probably, any mercenary group is bad news. But that’s not their organizing principle, and they weren’t incorporated into the official Russian military as the Azov Nazis were, nor do they exert major control over the central government.

Here’s just one example of peace deals acceptable to Zelensky being undermined by the West: https://scheerpost.com/2022/09/01/report-russia-ukraine-tent...

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#185

Post by wonderwonder »

miguelazo wrote: post #184
wonderwonder wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol, Dmitry Utkin is one of the military founders of the Wagner group and is covered in nazi tattoos. Russians invaded Ukraine to stop the nazis and brought along their own? There are many examples of Nazis fighting for Russia. Come on man, I refuse to believe that you think Russia invaded Ukraine because of Nazis. No way you would fall to that sort of propaganda. Right...? Again, can you show me the videos of Zelens…

Are there a few bad apples in the Wagner group? Probably, any mercenary group is bad news. But that’s not their organizing principle, and they weren’t incorporated into the official Russian military as the Azov Nazis were, nor do they exert major control over the central government. Here’s just one example of peace deals acceptable to Zelensky being undermined by the West: https://scheerpost.com/2022/09/01/report-rus…

You kinda left out the other very minor issue from the article that prevented a deal

"According to Ukrainska Pravda, the other factor that scuttled peace talks was the discovery of massacred civilians in Bucha and other areas near Kyiv that Russia withdrew from around the time negotiations were being held."

But the Russians are the good guys fighting to liberate Ukraine from the Nazis led by their Jewish president. Looks like they did a great job liberating the civilians in Bucha.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#186

Post by miguelazo »

andrewflnr wrote: post #85
pshirshov wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt it's "zero". I've quizzed many many people I had connections with and literally all of them support the war up to some extent. The most common opinion is "we shouldn't have started this but we should win this war and take over Ukraine and Poland". It would be really strange to count such opinions as "anti-war".

Poland too, huh? Have they thought through the implications of that one?

Did Poland think through the implications of hosting an AEGIS missile system (thanks to the US unilaterally withdrawing from an arms control treaty)? I’m sure the Kremlin was going to believe that was to protect Europe from “Iranian and North Korean” missiles. What a joke.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#187

Post by leereeves »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #183
leereeves wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poll I linked just a couple posts up, by the Washington Post.

This one? https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/02/12/new-surve... Paywalled, described as a "survey" in the headline, so not actually a poll. Why pick that specific one?

Disable JS to bypass the paywall.

I picked this one because it's one of the few I've seen that seems the least bit trustworthy. If you know of a better one, I'd be happy to read it too.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#188

Post by int_19h »

yucky wrote: post #181
int_19h wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it happens, I am still a Russian citizen, so you might consider that your perspective about "why do we ever trust those guys when they always lied to us" is equally applicable from the other end. I don't need to listen to Biden to tell me that Putin is a dick; I lived under him for a decade, and still have family and friends who do. As far as comparisons go, US did a lot of shitty things internationally in the pas…

We have economically & culturally annexed huge swaths of the world. When nations push back, we bomb them into submission.

Yes, you did. And while it's not a positive influence on the world, it's far better than physical occupation. There are countries that had a chance to compare the two, and you might note that most of them are currently in NATO - because their population wanted it.

But if you want to seek redemption, helping a nation pushing back against another, even more brutal empire trying to bomb it into submission seems like a perfect chance, no?

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#189

Post by yucky »

int_19h wrote: post #188
yucky wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have economically & culturally annexed huge swaths of the world. When nations push back, we bomb them into submission.

Yes, you did. And while it's not a positive influence on the world, it's far better than physical occupation. There are countries that had a chance to compare the two, and you might note that most of them are currently in NATO - because their population wanted it. But if you want to seek redemption, helping a nation pushing back against another, even more brutal empire trying to bomb it into submission seems like a p…

  > it's far better than physical occupation.
We did that too. We invaded and occupied Iraq for 20 years and just recently left. Same for Afghanistan. We're still in northern Syria, illegally. So the point stands - we have no credibility on this issue.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#190

Post by trymas »

diimdeep wrote: post #140

> Bret Devereaux, "About the Pedant", "A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry", "PhD", "ancient and military historian", "intersections of the Roman economy and the Roman military" https://acoup.blog/about-the-pedant/ > “I am not going to pretend to be neutral here. I am on the side of the nascent democracy which was ruthlessly and lawlessly attacked without provocation by a larger and more powerful foreign power.” I'm…

OP:

> about: Dmitry Wolf, Moscow, Russia

I guess OP thinks that Ukraine "asked for it", that "it's a brother nation that must be one with ruzzia", "Kyiv is ruzzia, thus Ukraine does not exist", "Крымнаш", etc.

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