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Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

theguardian.com

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Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#671

Post by flippinburgers »

devy wrote: post #516
cubefox wrote: post #439

Does anyone notice the irony of it being partly repairable, while offering just three years of security updates, after which you basically have to throw the thing away? The repairability sounds nice, but it is very irrelevant compared to the limited software updates. Imagine buying a Windows laptop and only receiving three years of security updates. (I know, most other phones aren't better.) It would have been better…

I don't see a 3-year security update as an irony. In fact, I see that as a great gesture for the budget price point android phone has a 3-year software warranty. Nokia probably have done research on this pricing segment to know that the averaging budget android device lifecycle is about 2.x years and guarantee a 3 year security update to make the device more worthy, comparing to other brands at this price point. By t…

Yes with phones. It is honestly disgusting because it generates so much unnecessary waste.

I have a PC that I build myself over 9 years ago and run linux on. I upgrade hardware as needed but I will never have to worry about security update nonsense.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#672

Post by scheeseman486 »

el_snark wrote: post #627
Angostura wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should offer paid-for upgrades after 3 years

Pretty sure the Custom ROM crew will leap on this one, so flashing it with one of those seems like it will be an option.

The long term practicality of this depends on mainline kernel support. LineageOS is cool, but the thing no one talks about is that while the Android stack might get updated, the kernel often isn't, which means any kernel level exploits remain unpatched after the support period ends.

Which is why this reads as kind of a stunt. A repairable phone is great, but if it becomes unsafe to use then what's the point? The software needs to be "repairable" too.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#673

Post by flippinburgers »

mrelectric wrote: post #619
ip26 wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that repairable devices are implied to be maintainable as well, e.g. you can generally keep them in good working order as long as you please. Reasonable or not, a security update sunset contradicts this possibility.

Repairable phone implies level of technical competency. You're not the target audience. Target audience will have no problem installing alternative ROM

The ROM doesn't cover all of the software that runs on a phone to my understanding. We need truly open phones.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#674

Post by flippinburgers »

lolinder wrote: post #597
atleta wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point, but indeed a lot of people will kill their phone in less than 3 years. Either breaking the screen (which, IIUC, will be also replaceable/self servicable) or killing the battery. Most sources say that the battery will keep an acceptable capacity for around 500 cycles, i.e. 1.5 years if fully charged daily. (Now I don't know, because I'm very cautious not to fully charge and to discharge below 25-3…

> Most sources say that the battery will keep an acceptable capacity for around 500 cycles, i.e. 1.5 years if fully charged daily. This is what I see online, but this hasn't been my experience for any of my devices. My current phone is on year 5 with the same battery, and it's still very decent. I charge it every day to 100% and often plug it back in while it's still at 50%, so it's not like I'm being more careful th…

I have a similar experience.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#675

Post by toastal »

userbinator wrote: post #488
billfor wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much replacing as swapping for a spare to double life without recharging.

Samsung even made an ad about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hIoyb9L5g0 ...but then stopped making removable batteries after that.

Like Google teasing Apple for removing the headphone jack and then following that anti-usability trend on next year's model.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#676

Post by flippinburgers »

moffkalast wrote: post #464
cubefox wrote: post #439

Does anyone notice the irony of it being partly repairable, while offering just three years of security updates, after which you basically have to throw the thing away? The repairability sounds nice, but it is very irrelevant compared to the limited software updates. Imagine buying a Windows laptop and only receiving three years of security updates. (I know, most other phones aren't better.) It would have been better…

Well it's not like desktop OSes are much better, your average LTS Linux distro gets like what, four or five years of updates before they pull the plug?

Uh and so you upgrade to the next software version on the same hardware.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#677

Post by scheeseman486 »

mrelectric wrote: post #619
ip26 wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that repairable devices are implied to be maintainable as well, e.g. you can generally keep them in good working order as long as you please. Reasonable or not, a security update sunset contradicts this possibility.

Repairable phone implies level of technical competency. You're not the target audience. Target audience will have no problem installing alternative ROM

Custom roms are a half-solution unless Unisoc have solid mainline support in the kernel, so that it can be updated past the support period without hacking in blobs. Custom ROMs can also be less secure (and less useful as many applications annoyingly check for verity) if the manufacturer doesn't allow access to low level hardware security features.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#678

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #587
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple iPhone as the gold standard only provide security updates up to 6-7 years Laughs in Microsoft How about 20 years?! I have a laptop built in 2006, it runs Windows 10 and will be supported untill 2025. It can also run software compiled in 1999! What platform can beat it, an IBM mainframe? Microsoft is the gold standard! Its a shame they never get credit for the one thing they do well.

Well a lot of people are looking at Windows 11, which launched in 2021 and required a ~2018 CPU. Especially when Intel's 8th generation chips were barely different from the ones going back years. Chips close to that cutoff are going to have awful support lifetimes from microsoft if you can't get updates past 2025.

This is looking at it from the wrong side though. It isn't the hardware vendor ending support there, it's the software vendor.

PC hardware can be supported indefinitely because it's documented, more or less. Windows uses a hardware abstraction layer so the old drivers can be used with the new Windows. Hardware only stops being supported by Windows when Microsoft decides it, not Intel or NVIDIA or Broadcom.

The Linux community writes open source drivers, or the hardware makers do themselves, so they can be updated by the kernel developers when they make changes to the kernel and continue to work. You can put run the latest Linux kernel on a PC from 1995.

But for phones the hardware support comes as an opaque binary blob tied to a specific kernel version, so when that kernel falls out of support, the hardware is slag unless someone has the resources to reverse engineer it. Which they might if it was just the wireless or just the storage controller, but it's not.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#679

Post by scarface74 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #566
devy wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a 3-year security update as an irony. In fact, I see that as a great gesture for the budget price point android phone has a 3-year software warranty. Nokia probably have done research on this pricing segment to know that the averaging budget android device lifecycle is about 2.x years and guarantee a 3 year security update to make the device more worthy, comparing to other brands at this price point. By t…

> Apple iPhone as the gold standard only provide security updates up to 6-7 years Laughs in Microsoft How about 20 years?! I have a laptop built in 2006, it runs Windows 10 and will be supported untill 2025. It can also run software compiled in 1999! What platform can beat it, an IBM mainframe? Microsoft is the gold standard! Its a shame they never get credit for the one thing they do well.

This comparison isn’t really relevant. Could you run the then current operating system in 2006 on a computer that you bought in 1986?

A 2010 iPhone 4s can’t connect to any network in the US let alone a 2007 iPhone. Computers changed leaps and bounds in the first 20 years just like smartphones have.

Sure my 2010 Dell Core 2 Duo with 8GB of RAM can run Windows 10.

But a computer bought in 1997 couldn’t run the then current Windows OS in 2010.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#680

Post by scheeseman486 »

pessimizer wrote: post #489
lolinder wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Custom rom support would be helpful for a very niche audience, but it's not something that's going to make a dent in e-waste at all. I'm a pretty tech savvy user who runs Linux on my desktop and I'm too intimidated to try a custom ROM on my phone. The average Nokia customer isn't going to even know it's an option, much less be willing to take the plunge. If Nokia is serious about fighting e-waste they need to provide…

If the average user can't handle flashing a custom ROM (which is probably true), they can take it to one of the million phone repair shops and give them $10.

Phone makers make it hard, but it doesn't really have to be. You can flash GrapheneOS on a Pixel using a USB cable, Chrome and a few pokes at the developer settings menu on the phone. The only actual friction comes from the Pixel's default OS and that UX flow was a choice.
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