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Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

theguardian.com

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Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#571

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #566
devy wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a 3-year security update as an irony. In fact, I see that as a great gesture for the budget price point android phone has a 3-year software warranty. Nokia probably have done research on this pricing segment to know that the averaging budget android device lifecycle is about 2.x years and guarantee a 3 year security update to make the device more worthy, comparing to other brands at this price point. By t…

> Apple iPhone as the gold standard only provide security updates up to 6-7 years Laughs in Microsoft How about 20 years?! I have a laptop built in 2006, it runs Windows 10 and will be supported untill 2025. It can also run software compiled in 1999! What platform can beat it, an IBM mainframe? Microsoft is the gold standard! Its a shame they never get credit for the one thing they do well.

They needlessly broke the start-menu and taskbar in Windows 8 and Windows 11 for no good reason.

And there still isn’t a coherent native desktop-app dev story for Windows. Even MS is using Electron for their own software.

One step forward, two steps back.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#572

Post by ClumsyPilot »

raron wrote: post #565
moffkalast wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the actual technical hurdle of doing this on mobile devices too? I mean in practice it's because the manufacturer blocks it, but I don't really understand why (outside maliciously wanting you to buy their new stuff ofc). The architecture has been arm64 forever, memory and storage slowly increases but not in any way that really matters for an OS. There are specifically optimized apps to get the most out of t…

> Some kernel drivers or wifi chipsets or something they can't be arsed to keep supporting? Yup, there is no documentation for these chips, you probably gets some SDK with an old version of heavily modified linux kernel in a big ZIP file (so no version control history, no diffs), sometimes you only got some random binary blob. Because every chip manufacturer thinks (maybe right?) that with a good mainline driver or a…

> Yup, there is no documentation for these chips, you probably gets some SDK with an old version of heavily modified linux kernel in a big ZIP file (so no version control history, no diffs),

We need to legislate that the user has a legal right to precise documentation of any hardware they bought.

Including any spying activity it might be enabling.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#573

Post by atleta »

cubefox wrote: post #439

Does anyone notice the irony of it being partly repairable, while offering just three years of security updates, after which you basically have to throw the thing away? The repairability sounds nice, but it is very irrelevant compared to the limited software updates. Imagine buying a Windows laptop and only receiving three years of security updates. (I know, most other phones aren't better.) It would have been better…

That's a fair point, but indeed a lot of people will kill their phone in less than 3 years. Either breaking the screen (which, IIUC, will be also replaceable/self servicable) or killing the battery. Most sources say that the battery will keep an acceptable capacity for around 500 cycles, i.e. 1.5 years if fully charged daily. (Now I don't know, because I'm very cautious not to fully charge and to discharge below 25-30%, so mine is pretty good after 1.5 years and the previous phone that I've used for 5+ years started draining the battery after a software update when it was less than 6 mo old...)

Speaking about batteries, what would be nice if they added a setting that allows defining charging limits, e.g. like what we have on Lenovo Thinkpads. (You can specify both the upper threshold and also the lower one, so that charging doesn't start if the battery is above that level even if you connect the device. Which you may do to a phone even without wanting to charge, e.g. if you use it as a modem.)

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#574

Post by fencepost »

devy wrote: post #516
cubefox wrote: post #439

Does anyone notice the irony of it being partly repairable, while offering just three years of security updates, after which you basically have to throw the thing away? The repairability sounds nice, but it is very irrelevant compared to the limited software updates. Imagine buying a Windows laptop and only receiving three years of security updates. (I know, most other phones aren't better.) It would have been better…

I don't see a 3-year security update as an irony. In fact, I see that as a great gesture for the budget price point android phone has a 3-year software warranty. Nokia probably have done research on this pricing segment to know that the averaging budget android device lifecycle is about 2.x years and guarantee a 3 year security update to make the device more worthy, comparing to other brands at this price point. By t…

By comparison to the Samsung Galaxy A series this is unimpressive. Everything in that line is either 2 OS upgrades/4 years of security updates or 4 OS upgrades/5 years of security updates. That's all the way down to the A03s which is Those are from the release date of the phone, but I think they're doing roughly annual releases on that line.

Edit: Samsung also planned for longer device life - there's an option to turn on a battery saver feature that caps charge at 85%, which should significantly increase the years of service from the battery.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#575

Post by palata »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #550
cubefox wrote: post #439

Does anyone notice the irony of it being partly repairable, while offering just three years of security updates, after which you basically have to throw the thing away? The repairability sounds nice, but it is very irrelevant compared to the limited software updates. Imagine buying a Windows laptop and only receiving three years of security updates. (I know, most other phones aren't better.) It would have been better…

Hot take: security updates are overrated. People with fully updated iPhones and Pixels still get pwned. It seems like people's wants and needs change with whatever the hell Apple decides to do.

That's a wrong look at security, I think. Everything is "pwnable", if you put enough resources into it. The question is how much resources do you need to put into it?

If you have a 5 years-old never-patched Android, probably a student can go read disclosed security issues, pick one that they understand (or for which they found a tutorial online), and hack you. It's not the same thing as saying that your patched iPhone can be hacked by NSO, though.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#576

Post by swatcoder »

capableweb wrote: post #546
cubefox wrote: post #439

Does anyone notice the irony of it being partly repairable, while offering just three years of security updates, after which you basically have to throw the thing away? The repairability sounds nice, but it is very irrelevant compared to the limited software updates. Imagine buying a Windows laptop and only receiving three years of security updates. (I know, most other phones aren't better.) It would have been better…

Seems this new phone costs about 150 EUR, which for three years, would be 50 EUR per year, if you keep for as long as it gets security updates. A iPhone 14 costs ~1000 EUR where I am. If you expect to get 7 years of security updates out of it (I think that's what Apple says? Not sure, someone please correct me), then it'll be 142 EUR per year. Three times the price, if you calculate it per year. After three years of…

People will note that there are worse problems in the world, but tossing a sophisticated piece of electronics every three years by design sounds really wasteful, especially when practical capabilities change so much more slowly now.

It’s a bummer that this is normalized.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#577

Post by userbinator »

angry_octet wrote: post #548
userbinator wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Otherwise there will be a pool of devices which are still in use and easily targetted. There already are, and the world hasn't ended yet... It's your paranoia that's absurd (and what these companies are relying on to keep the masses under their control, so keep drinking the kool-aid...) The fact that so many here are going on about updates and support, when in fact there's plenty of people who don't give a shit and t…

You've obviously never dealt with people who've been hacked and had their life's savings extracted or the business made unviable. Just goes to show, you can lead a horse to security patches (or vaccination, or the effects of climate change) but you can't make him apply them.

I have, but it was ultimately due to being phished or similar social engineering tactics, which I'd say is far more likely than being hacked remotely by some obscure exploit.

Just goes to show, you can lead a horse to security patches (or vaccination, or the effects of climate change) but you can't make him apply them.

Many of us would rather continue fighting for our freedom instead of advocating for and cheering on the rise of dystopia.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#578

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

palata wrote: post #575
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: security updates are overrated. People with fully updated iPhones and Pixels still get pwned. It seems like people's wants and needs change with whatever the hell Apple decides to do.

That's a wrong look at security, I think. Everything is "pwnable", if you put enough resources into it. The question is how much resources do you need to put into it? If you have a 5 years-old never-patched Android, probably a student can go read disclosed security issues, pick one that they understand (or for which they found a tutorial online), and hack you. It's not the same thing as saying that your patched iPhon…

No shit. It's important but I'm wondering if it's overrated. It's a phone. I've passed on lots of devices because they aren't supported for long. It makes me wonder if the security updates are a mere sales pitch that doesn't actually benefit the user a whole lot. Great, it's harder to hack me. Would I have been hacked if I stuck with my Pixel 3? Hard to say. Overrated

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#579

Post by jen20 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #566
devy wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a 3-year security update as an irony. In fact, I see that as a great gesture for the budget price point android phone has a 3-year software warranty. Nokia probably have done research on this pricing segment to know that the averaging budget android device lifecycle is about 2.x years and guarantee a 3 year security update to make the device more worthy, comparing to other brands at this price point. By t…

> Apple iPhone as the gold standard only provide security updates up to 6-7 years Laughs in Microsoft How about 20 years?! I have a laptop built in 2006, it runs Windows 10 and will be supported untill 2025. It can also run software compiled in 1999! What platform can beat it, an IBM mainframe? Microsoft is the gold standard! Its a shame they never get credit for the one thing they do well.

You missed the implied “for phones” in there.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#580

Post by IntelMiner »

netsharc wrote: post #549
firecall wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you install your own Android versions? How does it work Android in this regard? I guess it’s not like Windows where if my hardware is supported I can install the latest supported version? I suppose it’s somewhat interesting in the industry difference between supporting hardware with updates as if it’s firmware, and supporting software with updates like an OS. (Not advocating for windows for anything at all BTW)

Homebrew ROMs often don't have Google's holywater blessing of being certified, so some things like banking apps might not run on them. So, say your phone has old Android version x. You're fine until a security hole shows up, or your banking app says "Our app needs Android version x+1. Please update your phone.". Oops, not offered by phone. Install a custom ROM. Banking app says "This device is not certified and for y…

Doesn't "Magisk" alleviate a lot of that? Except for I believe Netflix and its Widevine bullshit
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